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D800, mirror slap and AF-P lenses

Discussion in 'Nikon Chat' started by ChrisNewman, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    I would suspect that most D800s are much alike, assuming similar shutter counts, hence my wondering about comparing with a different Nikon FX model. Obviously the closest equivalent is indeed a D810, rather than a D610 or a D750. I use a downmarket D610;) which doesn't seem to suffer this issue, indeed it sounds better damped than any other DSLR I have used. Pixel count is really only an issue if you are in the habit of heavily cropping or making A2 prints.

    The Sony SLTs indeed use an EVF, whether it can be seen as combining disadvantages of both mirrorless and DSLR types is debatable, it does overcome the slower operation of CSCs and the translucent mirror does act as a partial barrier to dust reaching the sensor.
     
  2. ChrisNewman

    ChrisNewman Well-Known Member

    I’d kept that shot of the heron as one of the better ones of the bird, and it’s typical of what I normally get with hand-held shots with that lens at 200 mm. I don’t expect excellence from a budget zoom lens. What’s troubling me is that I know it can give pretty decent results given a 3-second exposure delay (in case that’s Nikon terminology you’re not familiar with, it’s a setting that gives a 3-second delay between raising the mirror and opening the shutter), as shown by the lower two test chart shots. Yet on my D800, much of the detail is blurred out from a conventional shot through the viewfinder, when the shutter opens straight after the mirror is lifted.
    Not an issue! I only reply to posts when convenient, and I think a same day response is pretty good.

    Chris
     
  3. ChrisNewman

    ChrisNewman Well-Known Member

    That’s what I think as well, but it would be good to check it.
    I’m afraid hardly any of my photos ever get beyond the computer, where it’s trivially easy to zoom in and enjoy details. I think a D610 or a D750 would only give about 10MPx with my APS-C lenses, which seems rather meagre. At the other end of the scale, Park Cameras have just emailed me an invitation to pre-order a D850. It looks great, with 45/19 MPx and a tilting LCD, except I don’t see a built-in flash, so carrying one would add weight and bulk. They “only” want £3,499.00 for it (nearly twice what I paid for my D800), not counting a small flashgun and some new-type memory cards.


    Chris
     
  4. nimbus

    nimbus Well-Known Member

    Logically if you are going to use DX lenses with an FX body on a regular basis it would make a degree of sense to buy a DX body for use when you don't want to tote the weight of the FF outfit. Given that a decent D3200 body is only £140-160 with 24mp secondhand or a D7000 with 16mp around £250 it is a lower investment strategy than a D850:D
     
  5. ChrisNewman

    ChrisNewman Well-Known Member

    When planning a digital outfit (switching from a manual focus Pentax one), I knew I want to carry a core outfit of an excellent mid-range zoom (I use that for the great majority of my photos), ultra-wide angle and telephoto zooms, and a macro. I realized that a full-frame outfit would be heavier than I wanted to carry, so bought an outfit centred on a Nikon D90 (rather reluctantly, because at the time it was the smallest format camera I’d ever owned, smaller than the Instamatic 126 my parents gave me as my first camera). When Nikon introduced the D800, I realized that replacing my D90 and 17-55mm f/2.8 with a D800 and Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 would add little weight to my outfit, whilst bringing the benefits of full frame and image stabilization to most of my shots. (Having damaged my Tamron recently, I replaced it with the Nikkor 24-70mm VR, probably a poor decision, but that’s another story.) Even with my APS-C lenses, the D800’s 15 MPx is more than I get from the D90, and probably about enough to do justice to budget APS-C lenses. The D800 also has a better control set than the vast majority of APS-C cameras; I don’t know whether the D500 or Canon’s 7DMkII could match it. I’ve added other full-frame lenses for particular situations. But I don’t think, for my pattern of lens use, there is a better balance of weight and performance available than a high-resolution full-frame body and fast mid-range zoom, supplemented with lightweight APS-C lenses.


    Chris
     
  6. cliveva

    cliveva Well-Known Member

    have you tried quiet mode?
     
  7. ChrisNewman

    ChrisNewman Well-Known Member

    Thank you so much for reminding me! I did include Quiet mode in my initial brief hand-held tests, but what I noted concentrated on the substantial improvement 1 sec Exposure delay gave over normal shooting; my attention was on finding out whether mirror slap was causing a problem, rather than how to minimize its effect. I should have included Quiet mode in my thorough tests on the floppy tripod, but stupidly overlooked it. I’m not very optimistic, though. The manual is somewhat ambiguous, stating “mirror does not drop back into place until shutter-release button is returned to halfway position after shooting, allowing you to delay noise made by mirror. Mirror is quieter than in single-frame mode.” I suspect the mirror rises as vigorously as usual, causing as much shake as usual; delaying its return shouldn’t affect the image, which will already have been recorded. But it’s worth a try, so I’ll do some more testing when I get a good opportunity. (The sun barely gets above the trees behind our house now - I might even need to wait until the leaves fall.)


    With thanks,

    Chris
     
  8. IvorCamera

    IvorCamera Well-Known Member

    I just came across these in my files..D800...160th...f11....28-300mm Nikkor at the 300 end...ISO200....+0-3.............crop and full frame....
    Heron.jpg Heron 8.jpg
     
  9. ChrisNewman

    ChrisNewman Well-Known Member

    That’s the sort of sharp feather detail I was hoping for!

    Chris
     
  10. cliveva

    cliveva Well-Known Member

    no idea how to get an image on here, but use the links.
    Since you started me wondering, shot these birds last week in the highlands, the chaffinch with a 70-200@200(crop) 1/160, f3.5 iso 1600, the raven with a 24-120(crop) 1/40 f16 iso 100.
    Even with VR the raven is not as sharp, as the chaffinch is, but, was it just good technique , sitting bracing camera and lens against body vs standing, hand held and low shutter speed(the moment got the better of me),shutter too slow ?
    Perhaps not the best examples to question mirror slap, as the big lens wins, hands down, may have done better with 1/250 for the raven. Just wanted shot, grabbed camera and went for it. Should know better by now!
     
  11. cliveva

    cliveva Well-Known Member

    OH...........thats how it works :rolleyes:
     
  12. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    Not the best example to compare different lenses. The raven moved. Using 1/40th for birds is a bit of a long exposure. Using F16 rather than F8 may also give softer results. To reduce camera shake effects, even with stabilisation, it is still a good idea to be mindful of the fact enlargement exagerates any movement. I would suppose the benefits of stabilisation are not necessarily equal over the full range of focal lengths for a zoom lens and less at the long end. I agree with you that 1/250 th would have been a better choice.

    I'm not sure of where the mirror slap discussion goes other than to conclude that certain lenses (or specific examples of lenses) may not perform at their optical best on this camera body.
     
  13. cliveva

    cliveva Well-Known Member

    Being late at night, a week after shooting........it should have been this bird! Apologies for the mistake.
    The 60mmf2.8 micro being my lightest lens & 70-200f2.8 the heaviest. The robin is a heavy crop, to enable viewing of detail. The hight shutter speed may have negated any slap, but when using this lens I have learnt to shoot much shorter exposures, than the usual rule of thumb, when hand held, if I want it sharp.

    I was interested in your idea of the mass of the lens affecting slap. The 60mm doesnt' seem that bad?
    So maybe it is the lens you are using or the mirror dampening on your camera at fault?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017

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