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Canon EOS R mirrorless camera body

Discussion in 'Canon Conflab' started by Rupert49, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. Rupert49

    Rupert49 Well-Known Member

    I've had Canon cameras for over 40 years and for the last five of those I've used an EOS 5D MkIII.

    I'm very much out of the loop these days re current developments in camera technology, the reason being that I'm very happy and settled with my own kit and, in retirement, I'm fairly unlikely to keep upgrading my kit. However, nobody can have failed to have at least heard the term 'mirrorless' even if, like me, they've not felt curious enough to find out about it.

    My understanding is that there will no longer be a prism, because there will no longer be a mirror to reflect the image up into the eye piece. Will it then be the case that, even with pro cameras such as the recently announced EOS R, we will have to learn to take photographs with the camera held at arm's length (in the manner of a smart phone) to view and frame our shots, using the little screen on the back of the camera body?

    If that's to be the case then count me out, as I cannot imagine not holding the camera to my eye to take a photograph. OK, so I appreciate that I have to use the 'smart phone' technique for video, but frankly I don't like it and it's mainly for that reason that I rarely bother to capture video images.
     
  2. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    No - these cameras have an EVF (electronic viewfinder), instead of an optical viewfinder. The latest EVFs are much high quality than the earliest ones.
     
  3. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    No. Although some early mirrorless cameras either had no viewfinders or used auxilliary clip on ones, new cameras have them. The big challenges for mirrorless have been - to achieve realistic electronic viewfinder view and to acheive rapid focussing and image aquisition for moving subjects. On both these counts the later models are doing quite well.

    I've had a Fuji mirrorless system as a lightweight alternative to my Canon system for sometime. Results have been very good. I bought a used X-H1 body the other week. It is their top APS-C model and it begins to feel close to a DSLR in terms of handling for me. The viewfinder is much, much better than that in my XE-2 which is a generation (arguably two) old now.

    I've never used liveview on my Canons but, as the rear LCD on a mirrorless is always on I can see that it does have uses if the camera is resting on something for steady support. On my Canons I use a right angled finder for easy viewing when using a tripod.
     
  4. Andrew Flannigan

    Andrew Flannigan Well-Known Member

    All the cameras I have currently are mirrorless and have built in EVFs. I find them much better than the optical ones I had on my Canon dSLRs. As ever, your mileage may vary.
     
  5. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Although pros will use whatever tool that suits the job, the EOS R certainly isn't being marketed as a "pro" camera.
     
  6. Rupert49

    Rupert49 Well-Known Member

    Would the EVF on the EOS R show 100% of the fov, as my 5DIII does now?

    What might the advantages of a mirrorless camera be over a conventional DSLR? I can't imagine that removing the mirror and the lock-up mechanism can save much weight, so there must be something else that's getting people excited.
     
  7. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    I have both (6D and Pen-F) and both have their strengths and weaknesses. All the above is true but there some excel in one direction and other in another, I positively prefer the rear screen for composing still life's butthe pentaprism still wins for fast action shots. So one pays one's money and takes one's choice as to which suits one's style.
    Of course one advantage of mirrorless that is often quoted is that they are smaller and lighter - but that seems to disappear when comparing like with like . For example my 6D is only slightly lighter than the equivalent Z series, however mirrorless lenses are indeed often lighter.

    There is no doubt that if I am expecting really tricky lighting I pick up the 6D but if I am just doing high quality snapshots I look for the penF
     
  8. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    While I'm not familiar with the EOS R model in particular, I would be absolutely astonished if the EVF showed anything less than 100% of the view.
     
  9. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    It isn't so much simply the weight of the mirror assembly - more the fact that there isn't a mirror flapping around, taking time, and causing vibration.
     
  10. RogerMac

    RogerMac Well-Known Member

    Mine claims it shows 100% and I have no reason to doubt it, there are several options for the amount of info shown in the viewer ( I expect the Canon is the same) and some of them do look cluttered. Note that if you use exposure compensation the screen will show the result after applying the compensation - which can be very useful.
     
  11. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    You'll have to look up the specs but the ELV should reproduce what the sensor sees.

    There is not much weight saving for full frame, unless you use certain lenses, as the weight is in the glass.

    There are some advantages if you get on with the EVF. The preview in the viewfinder informs on exposure, white balance and colour pallette because you view what is being recorded, albeit at full aperture. I can't remember if dof preview is available at constant evf brightness as I don't often use it. There is no mirror slap. Autofocus is potentially more accurate, as is track focus, because the information is taken from the sensor and not a fixed focus array. They can have high burst rates if you want several dozen almost identical pictures.

    It will be interesting to see how the full frame market shapes up in the next five years.
     
  12. Rupert49

    Rupert49 Well-Known Member

    All interesting points .. thank you.

    I see from the EOS R info on the Canon website that, if you are going to use any of your existing EF lenses (and why wouldn't you?) then there's an adapter to enable them to fit the EOS R body. What lenses does Canon imagine that one would be using if not those currently in one's kit bag? Do they believe that, by 'going mirrorless', customers are going to buy a whole new set of expensive 'L' lenses?

    Many of us possess a few thousand pounds worth of lenses, acquired over many years pursuing our hobby (or indeed livelihood), so I would have thought that we'd all expect those lenses to clip straight on to the EOS R without having to fiddle around with an adapter!
     
  13. PeteRob

    PeteRob Well-Known Member

    New customers are likely to buy the new mount lenses. The adapters are more for existing customers.
     
  14. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    It evf's on all mirrorless cameras show an exact 100%. The image comes directly from the sensor. They also give far brighter images in dark conditions. And they can be set to reflect the result of the exposure settings.

    That same image can be sent via blue tooth to your phone, tablet or other device which can also be used to set aperture and shutter speed and take the shot.

    Focus is always more accurate on a mirrorless camera though until recently sometimes slower. Recent hybrid sensors use the entire sensor to focus and are among the fastes available. Af on Dslr's substitute speed for accuracy.
     
  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Well-Known Member

    It has been shown that people are happy to change entire systems not just change camera bodies.
    Just about everone gets new lenses fairly soon after going mirrorless. Even though pretty much any lens that has a means of setting apertures on it works perfectly well on a mirrorless.

    Like you I am retired (83) and I chose to go Fuji x quite soon after they came out, they are most certainly lighter and the lenses astonishingly good.
    My Perfectly good Canon kit lays untouched in a number of camera bags ever since.
    However I am not the least tempted to move to the Eos R, as it is a few generations behind and it has a very limited lens range.
    I have just ordered a pentax screw/fuji lens adapter for less than £5 so the I can use an old pentax macro lens that I have.

    With an Evf you can get a bright view even with the lens stopped down to its working aperture.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  16. peterba

    peterba Well-Known Member

    That's why I said that I would be "astonished" if the EOS R had anything less. :) However, since I didn't know specifically about that model, I thought I'd cover myself and make sure I didn't inadvertently make a false statement. ;)
     
  17. Scphoto

    Scphoto Well-Known Member

    I guess that's the preferred approach, the alternative is to sell up and move to a different system. If you've got a lot of decent Eos lenses then it's not a bad approach - I sold all my Eos kit and moved to Fuji. In the end it cost me £500 extra to switch over (after purchasing two bodies and 3 lenses)

    They needed to make changes to an old mount, an adapter is inevitable. Nikon have been forced down that route.
     
    Terrywoodenpic likes this.
  18. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    I don't think anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of optics would expect that...
     
    Terrywoodenpic likes this.
  19. Rupert49

    Rupert49 Well-Known Member

    So how do you explain the fact that my earlier EF-S lenses fitted my 5D MkI when I first had it? I'd have thought that Canon would want to retain their existing user base without 'forcing' them to buy yet more kit!

    The physical processes by which a mirrorless camera 'sees' a subject, focuses and exposes the resultant image, are things currently 'beyond my ken'. Would my assumption that mirrorless cameras are merely DSLRs without the pentaprism, be a mistaken over simplification?
     
  20. Benchista

    Benchista Which Tyler

    Very easily. They didn't. EF-S lenses cannot be physically mounted on EF mount cameras. EF lenses can, however, be mounted on EF-S cameras. In some cases, you can take a knife to the rear of the EF-S lens and make it fit, but others will foul the mirror whatever you do.

    It's an over-simplification. More important is that there isn't a mirror - the removal of the mirror allows the lens to be mounted closer to the sensor, and that's what has happened here. What that means is that if EF lenses were mounted directly in that position, they wouldn't focus correctly - they NEED the adapter as an extension tube to allow them to bring light to focus on the sensor.
     
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