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Antiques Roadshow

Discussion in 'Leica Camera Chat' started by TimF, Oct 21, 2001.

  1. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    Did anybody see this tonight ? (21st Oct). Apparently there was a Luxus Leica on!

    Get out and get shooting!!
     
  2. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    I haven't seen it, but have it recorded.

    If I had infinite resources, I would strive to buy 'glass case' Leicas. I enjoy paintings, furniture and books, but would quite like to own a significant camera collection. And of all camera makes, if I were to specialise, it would have to be Leica. Not only that, I would regard it as an investment for the future. I shall report back on the programme when I have time to watch it.

    Clive
     
  3. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    It was in Bridgend, S.Wales, and was a 'snakeskin' version. The Leica Pocket Book of 1980 by Brian Tompkins (whoever he is) says they were made in lizard skin or calfskin. It looked like lizard skin to me. It had a matching gold plated Elmar, and the serial number of the camera was 88840, which the expert said was 1931. (1932 according to the Leitz Wetzlar tables in the back of the LPB). It was in an obviously used, but not bad, condition and the expert was sure it was genuine. As to value, he said that one went in auction a year or two ago for £30,000, but having said that 'Leica collectors are a law unto themselves' he then put a (to me) rather low valuation on it of £3-5000.
    Clive
     
  4. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    You don't know who that well known author Brian Tomkins is! Why he is well known for his fiction writing. Apparently he wrote some book about Leicas claiming that they were the best cameras in the world. Now I ask you, what an implausible plot for a novel!
    BigWill
     
  5. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    But the hot and steamy bits are good. Easily found by looking up NOOKY in the index.
    <font color=red>#
     
  6. BigWill

    BigWill Gorgeous oversensitive Nikon-loving cream puff

    I find the "hero" character to be somewhat implausible as well. Who ever heard of some old bearded geezer with a "snakeskin" complexion being able to pull a bird like Claudia Schiffer!
    BigWill
     
  7. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    And he doesn't even give Green Shield Stamps for her experience.
     
  8. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Clive,

    Any attempt at being precise with Leica production figure is a mine field. generally it accepted that the Luxus was produced in the rough band of serial numbers 28692-68834 but Leitz own a "Luxus" No 9781. Rogliatti claims that 87 were made. James Lager claims only 15, I found evidence of 95. It would not surprise me that in the twenty years since I wrote the book further research has uncovered more in the way of accurate information.

    I have examined "Luxus" cameras which would fool a Leitz expert and this includes scientific analysis of materials. Lets not forget that half the so called masterpieces of painting hanging in our galleries are now proving to be fake. So I suppose with the "Luxus", provenance is of the upmost importance.

    The number you quote is very suspicious, but note that an examination of the tables will show that this serial number is included in the batch 71200-101000 published on 1/2/1932 hence there must have been an overlap re years, however the "Luxus" was a converted 1, not a 11. Even this doesn't provide proof, I have seen a Leicas 1 No 245, No 372 and No4,404 all resplendant in "Luxus" livery and all in the Leitz museum. But , who knows? Perhaps it was the experts way of hedging his bet. Anyway its this sort of mystery that makes the whole World of Leitz so fascinating.

    Brian.
     
  9. Myk.R

    Myk.R Wiff Waff

  10. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Thanks Myk,

    I have had a look and it would appear that their expert made the same comment re it being a Leica 11 not a 1. But it is a snakeskin covered example , but usually those that fake them use the more popular red, not the brown.

    One thing that strikes me as being odd is the owners statement that he had owned the camera for forty five years and had never thought that it was unusual!

    I would classify this example as being a 1932 Leica 11, in gilt and lizard skin finish. In other words it is not a Luxus, hence perhaps the Antique Road Show expert putting such a low value on it.To stretch the point further, would we claim that a gilt finished M6 was a Luxus?

    Brian.
     
  11. Col. Hogan

    Col. Hogan Well-Known Member

    How could he think that camera is not unusual?

    Diane FRIPN
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    My point Diane, but maybe in South Wales "Gold" Leicas are commonplace.
    I'd also like to know why the expert "Checked the wind on Cam", anybody know?

    Slimey./img/wwwthreads/wink.gif
     
  13. Myk.R

    Myk.R Wiff Waff

    The 'Expert' claimed that Eastern European copies had a square cam as opposed the round cam of the originals.

    Not being a Leica type person I wouldn't be able to comment on the validity of that statement. So, back to you Brian.....

    Ja mata ne!

    Myk.R
     
  14. Clive

    Clive Well-Known Member

    Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that an owner of an original II had his camera (and lens) gold-plated and lizard-skinned to "Luxusise" it?
    Clive
     
  15. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    Not at all unlikely Clive. In a couple of thousand years I expect some archeologist digging away in the deserts of Dubai will come across a weird M6, can you just imagine the problems that will pose.

    Slimey.
     
  16. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    There's another picture in the November issue of BBC Homes and Antiques magazine, this time showing a matching snakeskin ever-ready case. Clive's idea that someone with more money than taste got at this camera is likely correct !!

    It must have been quite expensive to have done. Where the gilt is wearing off appears brass underneath rather than black.

    BTW there will be a feature on this camera in the BBC mag above's next issue.

    Get out and get shooting!!
     
  17. Brian

    Brian Venerable Elder

    But it would Tim, surely anybody doing this would have got the old paint stripper out first.

    Slimey.
     
  18. SCT

    SCT Well-Known Member

    Even worse when they carbon date the thing and it is within a few years of Nikon D1x or Canon D30. poor chaps will be confused. Why was this antiquated technology around when digital was also around.

    Steve C Thompson IRIPN
     
  19. TimF

    TimF With as stony a stare as ever Lord Reith could hav

    In the new AP (dated 10 November) this camera is featured on the news pages./img/wwwthreads/smile.gif

    Get out and get shooting!!
     
  20. SCT

    SCT Well-Known Member

    Re: Antiques Roadshow Pt 2

    Has anybody read this weeks AP (10th Nov) appraintly this camera has now been valued at £20,000. Over to you Brian oh great fountain of Red Blob knowledge.

    Steve C Thompson IRIPN
     

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