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Thread: Kodak kills slide film

  1. #41
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by 0lybacker View Post
    1. Please go back and read my posts thoroughly, Bench, - all the words - then THINK carefully about what I have posted!
    I have. It's utter, utter garbage, demonstrating a total lack of appreciation of any of the issues. Far more useful would be for you to read and understand everybody else's posts, which are a far better analysis of the situation. Are you the CEO of Kodak? If not, I'm struggling to see where such blind delusion could survive - Olympus, perhaps?

    2. It is important to remember the film market had regional variations AND still does. E-6 may have made great inroads here although you might be surprised at what film a lot of the pros favoured. American pros were a little different. Actually that is a huge understatement. American pros were very different!
    Agreed, US pros tended to favour US products more. That's why US processing of Kodachrome lasted longest - but it ceased to be cost-effective even there. What YOU must understand is that it is a complex, expensive and environmentally-unfriendly process that needs fairly high throughput to be profitable. There is no way on earth that that level of throughput can be managed even in the US, and that's assuming the process isn't banned for environmental reasons. The truth, the simple truth, is that there is not, and will not be, sufficient demand for Kodachrome to be profitable for any company; I'm absolutely astonished that you can't see that.
    Nick

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  2. #42
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by Learning View Post
    There was overcapacity. Hopefully with Kodak gone there will be an adequate demand on Fuji for colour and Ilford for monochrome.
    Has Kentmere gone? The web site is still present but the latest press release is dated 30th April 2009.

    Kentmere is alive and kicking. I was close their headquarters in Staveley only last week. Mind you is is owned by Ilford!

  3. #43
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by 0lybacker View Post
    1. Please go back and read my posts thoroughly, Bench, - all the words - then THINK carefully about what I have posted!

    2. It is important to remember the film market had regional variations AND still does. E-6 may have made great inroads here although you might be surprised at what film a lot of the pros favoured. American pros were a little different. Actually that is a huge understatement. American pros were very different!
    Sorry you are forgetting who is running Kodak, the accountants.

    They have dumped these slide films because they don't make money pure and simple. That is a film that can be home processed and processed at a lot of labs. Yet they don't make money.

    Where probably the C41 films just about make money so a keeper for now.

    Kodachrome is a loss making flagship product, think Bugatti Veyron. Except VW is not in chapter 11 and run by accountants. Even then one might argue that Kodachrome is not flagship anymore more PR product. Tied to the companies history and legacy. But accountant don't look at that. They look at money earners which Kodachrome is not. Plus the re-start costs would be huge.

    I think we can see that the film division of Kodak is in a bad way from this. The money making is probably in the paper side which is a growth sector because of large format laser rendering using normal photo processing. Also the inkjet and dye-sub probably make money as well. We now know the compact camera side was a loss making section probably hit by the smartphone uptake and product weakness.

    So the only solution now is a diet then some profit then maybe (I stress maybe) a toe into the high end compact market or even at a push CSC. That is where the money is down the line. But it take investment so the company has to make a buck.

    If pigs fly and Kodachrome did make a return then funny enough it would be in 120 roll format because then it could just about hold it own against digital if say they did the 25ISO version or could improve the 64ISO. But I think it is a long shot. Because now MF is under threat with the Nikon D800 then D4x etc. It would probably take 12-18 months to re-tool for Kodachrome again. Too long and costly as I said. Certainly would only happen once out of chapter 11. The accountants would never allow it.

    I reckon it quite likely that hanging on to Kodachrome may have been the hole below the water line.

  4. #44
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    We cannot expect any business to continue selling a product which is not making any profit; less still a product which is loosing money, and / or is likely to fall foul of environmental or Heal & Safety legislation and so forth.

    A company like Kodak, which is reported to be in serious financial difficulties, simply cannot afford to do anything that costs money unnecessarily, whtehr it be running an executive jet, or selling Kodachrome 64.

    There was a time when big companies would sell flagship products at a loss in order to maintain their reputations, but other than the Bugatti Veyron (which reportedly costs VW Audi about 3 million a time to build) I cannot think of any.

    From my own perspective, apart from occasional photomicroscopy work, I only use digital cameras in my day job, (an Oly E5 and Canon G11). However, this is out of necessity, and whilst these may be good cameras, I don't really enjoy using either of them.

    In my spare time I much prefer using my OM4 Ti fitted with a fast prime lens, or if time and weight allows, my Mamiya 645 Pro TL. But I am under no illusions that there is a long term future for film or film cameras.

    The fact is that film has become a niche market. For now we are fortunate enough to have an excellent range of film products available from Fuji and Ilford, and a few from Kodak; but that situation will only continue whilst we use enough film to keep their production lines running.

    As for film making a comeback; well, we can always dream, but I have no doubt that 'electronic capture' in one form or another is the only way forward from here. Apart from anything else, the raw materials needed to make photographic films are becoming increasingly expensive and scarce, so any thoughts of a major revival for film are sadly, farcical.
    Nigel CRIPN and Bar

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  5. #45
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    A realist^. No tripe about film revivals...

  6. #46
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    At least (for the time being we still have Fuji and the re-vamped Agfa to use. I think it will be available for a good while longer.

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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by John King View Post
    At least (for the time being we still have Fuji and the re-vamped Agfa to use. I think it will be available for a good while longer.
    Yes indeed. I still have a freezer full of Velvia, Provia and Portra to use, which will keep me happy for a while.

    (I also bought two brand new lenses for my Mamiyas (from Ffordes) recently, and at a very reasonable price, which I need to get out and use. )

    Having said all of the above, I feel it would be both helpful and enjoyable if our favourite photographic magazine could have a regular 'film corner' somewhere between it's covers.

    Film may be a niche interest these days, but many of us continue to enjoy it, and with the current low cost of some fantastic film cameras, I am sure there will be numerous newcomers who would love to give it a go.
    Nigel CRIPN and Bar

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  8. #48
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by 0lybacker View Post
    There is NEVER going to be a wholesale rebellion against digital. It's here to stay.
    What he said was "I'd give it 20 years before there's a rebellion against digital. And digital will always be where the bulk action is."

    How could you miss that, he clearly wasn't saying digital wasn't here to stay, even though he was wrong, at least partially.
    Al

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  9. #49
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by AJUK View Post
    What he said was "I'd give it 20 years before there's a rebellion against digital. And digital will always be where the bulk action is."

    How could you miss that, he clearly wasn't saying digital wasn't here to stay, even though he was wrong, at least partially.
    Old thread. But you must have read the news. Fujifilm are killing off E6 as well.

    If you going to shoot any E6 slide now is the time to get some.

    We are coming to the end of the era of 35mm slide photography.

  10. #50
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by P_Stoddart View Post
    Old thread. But you must have read the news. Fujifilm are killing off E6 as well. :
    You've not read it properly, then.
    Nick

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  11. #51
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchista View Post
    You've not read it properly, then.
    Yeah, but you cannot shoot film if there is none to buy. I kind of thought Fuji would hang in there with Velvia.

    Bit like rebellion with no weapons.

    Unless small companies come forward and start making the 35mm film.

    Of cause sheet film a different matter. But Fuji are even chucking the towel in on that.

    I don't know about you but I never really liked shooting C41. I was really happy to switch to slide.

    Plus I find it easier to scan and the compare.

    I admit I might have misunderstood that part of the thread.

  12. #52
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by P_Stoddart View Post
    Yeah, but you cannot shoot film if there is none to buy. I kind of thought Fuji would hang in there with Velvia.

    Bit like rebellion with no weapons.

    Unless small companies come forward and start making the 35mm film.

    Of cause sheet film a different matter. But Fuji are even chucking the towel in on that.

    I don't know about you but I never really liked shooting C41. I was really happy to switch to slide.

    Plus I find it easier to scan and the compare.

    I admit I might have misunderstood that part of the thread.
    Fuji are discontinuing some film - Velvia 100F in I think all sizes, and Velvia 50 in large format sizes. 120 and 35mm continue, as do other Fuji E6 films.
    Nick

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  13. #53
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by P_Stoddart View Post
    Yeah, but you cannot shoot film if there is none to buy. I kind of thought Fuji would hang in there with Velvia.

    Bit like rebellion with no weapons.

    Unless small companies come forward and start making the 35mm film.

    Of cause sheet film a different matter. But Fuji are even chucking the towel in on that.

    I don't know about you but I never really liked shooting C41. I was really happy to switch to slide.

    Plus I find it easier to scan and the compare.

    I admit I might have misunderstood that part of the thread.
    Don't let the facts spoil a good panic. They are discontinuing sheet film. When products are discontinued it is simply because demand has fallen to a level where it is not viable to make and distribute them. So it is no good hand-wringing.

  14. #54
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchista View Post
    Fuji are discontinuing some film - Velvia 100F in I think all sizes, and Velvia 50 in large format sizes. 120 and 35mm continue, as do other Fuji E6 films.
    It says updated so wonder if it has changed. The image suggested both 35mm films for the chop.

    Phew!

    http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...essional-films

    Fen raised this first. Even he thought both were being killed off.

    Blooming stupid to show a box of Fujifilm Velvia 50 if it still in production and not being killed off.

  15. #55
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    I would like to try Velvia 100F, but I have never been able to find any, so I am not surprised that demand is poor!

    (Does anyone know how Velvia 100F compares with Velvia 100 or Provia 100F?)

    The good news is that the film making process is much the same for all formats and types of colour film, and the same machinery is used. It is only the emulsion that changes, and even then, many of the raw materials will be common to several types of film and printing papers; so whilst film is still being made there is still hope that occasional batches of 'obsolete' film might be produced if consumer demand is there.

    What I am less certain about is whether the processes used to make B&W films is the same as that for C41 and E6, in which case it might be possible for companies like Ilford to produce colour films if the colour emulsion is available, although clearly there would be little point if there was no demand.

    I think we also need to remember that companies like Fuji are huge, so they need significant worldwide sales to justify maintaining any product (or Stock Keeping Unit). This often has more to do with logistics and distribution than the cost of maintaining the product itself. Perhaps smaller, European companies could be more adaptable?
    Nigel CRIPN and Bar

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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by Benchmark View Post
    Does anyone know how Velvia 100F compares with Velvia 100 or Provia 100F?
    Sort of halfway between ... less warm & less contrasty than Velvia 100 but warmer & more contrasty than Provia 100. Similar grain. I quite liked the stuff, for working in cloudy conditions.
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  17. #57
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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    I would like to try Velvia 100F, but I have never been able to find any............
    Nigel,7dayshop http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=71185 have it in stock.
    Dave NRIPN

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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    I have just read through this tread with some astonishment, I last used slide film in 2005, at the beginning of the year it had been easy to obtain, by the end of the year it was becoming incredibly difficult to find and could only buy from dwindling stocks online, I have to be honest and say that I had thought it had already disappeared!

    I have always preferred black and white film which I have been using for the last 30 years, the big advantage is that is so easy to process ones self, and it seems likely that B&W film will be around for a long time yet even if a scanner is used to produce a finished print or digital image to use on-line, even allowing the need for a scanner, B&W film is much cheaper taking into account that a high quality camera (Canon FTb/Pentax S1a) and lens can be purchased for relatively small amounts of money. any one interested in film may find these pages useful;- http://www.stephenwhiteheadphotograp...phy-pages.html
    Photography With Film

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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by photostephen View Post
    I have just read through this tread with some astonishment, I last used slide film in 2005, at the beginning of the year it had been easy to obtain, by the end of the year it was becoming incredibly difficult to find and could only buy from dwindling stocks online, I have to be honest and say that I had thought it had already disappeared!

    I have always preferred black and white film which I have been using for the last 30 years, the big advantage is that is so easy to process ones self, and it seems likely that B&W film will be around for a long time yet even if a scanner is used to produce a finished print or digital image to use on-line, even allowing the need for a scanner, B&W film is much cheaper taking into account that a high quality camera (Canon FTb/Pentax S1a) and lens can be purchased for relatively small amounts of money. any one interested in film may find these pages useful;- http://www.stephenwhiteheadphotograp...phy-pages.html
    I easily bought transparency film in 2007, two years after your supply problem. Where were you trying to buy it? Both Kodak and Fuji upgraded some of their portfolio subsequently.

    After a quick look at web-sites today, try Calumet, Silverprint, Mathers, Process Supplies and RK Photographic for starters. Agfa is only available in 35mm and only from Silverprint - you may get more Agfa options if you buy from Belgium, France or Germany. Some dealers have no Kodak or limited Fuji or vice versa.

    On the Today Programme (BBC R4) in the last month, the myth that slide film is no longer made was being pushed - again! I have heard people say this in several quarters but to the best of my knowledge it's not true.

    Am I right in thinking there has been no definitive statement from either Fuji or Kodak
    that they have ceased to manufacture all transparency film in all formats? All I have heard & read so far is that some film types and/or formats have been discontinued by both companies this year.

    Kodak did give a specific commitment to concentrate on film in February this year. Don't recall that at the time they said they would discontinue all transparency films.

    I may have missed something, especially in the last two weeks.

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    Re: Kodak kills slide film

    Quote Originally Posted by 0lybacker View Post

    Am I right in thinking there has been no definitive statement from either Fuji or Kodak
    that they have ceased to manufacture all transparency film in all formats? All I have heard & read so far is that some film types and/or formats have been discontinued by both companies this year.
    No, the whole point of this thread was that Kodak DID discontinue slide film. See here http://wwwuk.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/colorReversalIndex.jhtml?pq-path=1229. Those were the last three remaining Kodak slide films, as confirmed here http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012/03/01/did-kodak-just-discontinue-all-their-slide-films/. I didn't use the thread title loosely!

    Kodak did give a specific commitment to concentrate on film in February this year. Don't recall that at the time they said they would discontinue all transparency films.

    I may have missed something, especially in the last two weeks.
    Sadly, you did, and it's a case of imperfect recall.

    Fuji have discontinued some films and/or formats, but still make a pretty full range of slide films.
    Nick

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    "Few artists are much more than halfway sane" - Roger Hicks

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