Leica R versus Leica M glass

[Malcolm_Stewart]

Just wondering whether the magic of Leica glass extends to the lenses they sold for their SLRs, and whether I'd get similar results using a Summicron-R on an R4 say, as from a Summicron on an M3. I can't recall this being discussed, and there does seem to be a cost advantage in favour of the R ranges.

Or is the magic much more to do with the different way in which an RF Leica is handled cf an SLR?

Many thanks - from a nearly 100% dyed in the wool SLR user.

[kendavis]

I still use film for most of my work and it's with M's and R's. The R glass I use is mainly the Minolta derived zooms (35-70 MkII; 70-210 f4) and while they are not as sharp as the M series (assuming I've not shaken the camera!) the colour rendition means I can mix the slides together in a show without any problems. I think the R series offers some pretty good bargains at the moment given its original prices - I've seen R8's going for £300 - £350 and I paid £240 on ebay for the 70-210 and £300 from a retailer for the 35-70. You can get an f2 Summicron 50mm for less than £200 depending on condition. You can't get an M 50mm Summicron for that and I think they stand comparison.

Just my views, hope it helps.

[TimF]

It all depends on the glass, and what you want to use it for. As with all systems, some lenses are better than others.

My R glass (mostly bought s/h) consists of the 19mm f/2.8 ROM, 35mm f/2, 50mm f/2, 60mm f/2.8 Macro, 80mm f/1.4, 90mm f/2 APO, 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro, 180mm f/2.8 APO v.2, 280mm f/4 APO and 400mm f/6.8.

Of those, the lenses from 90mm to 280mm can stand comparison with anybody else's, and probably beat most of them for IQ. The 80mm is a classic, and Leica lovers go for it for its signature. Yes, it's a little soft at widest apertures, but for portraiture work for example, is that a problem - too sharp a lens can be unflattering. I haven't tested it against the light, but the 80mm is said to be extremely flare resistant.

The 60mm is also a very fine lens despite its age (first available 1972). For a wide angle prime, the 19mm is probably only rivalled by Leica's own 15mm R, and by the two Zeiss 21mm lenses (for Contax and the ZF/ZE range). The latest Zeiss is probably the best.

The 35mm is probably the weakest of the glass I have - it's not great in the corners; the older f/2.8 is better - but on the DMR with its x1.37 crop that isn't an issue really. The 50mm is a good performer, but no better than similar offerings from Canon, Nikon etc (for top class there you'd need to track down the uncommon 50mm Summilux-R in its final form).

The 400mm is a very old (and simple, just 2 elements) design. It still gives a decent, if not outstanding performance though.

One final word, you do need to be aware that R lenses come in various versions, single cam, 2-cam, 3-cam, R-cam and ROM. For the 'proper' R-series bodies, ie R3 onwards, you need a 3-cam, R-cam or ROM lens. The older lenses are for the Leicaflex bodies. The 3-cam lenses can (mostly) be used on all Leica SLRs, but the R-cam and ROM types lack the cams to use them on the Leicaflexes.

Some of the designs for R and M lenses do have some commonality; the 75mm Summilux-M and 80mm Summilux-R are basically the same design for example.

If you're fishing Malcolm, I would certainly say that a cheaper R body and a lens (forgetting the Minolta and Sigma derived zooms - stick to the 35-70mm f/4 and 80-200 f/4 for example. The best 'real" Leica zooms such as the 28-90mm f/2.8-4, 70-180mm f/2.8 and the short-lived 35-70mm f/2.8 are still ferociously costly) would be an inexpensive way to dip your toe into the Leica world.

[Malcolm_Stewart]

Thank you both for your informative replies.

There's some very useful information for me which I must try to have with me so that I'm not tempted by the wrong items at my next visit to a Camera Fair, or even Focus next week. Tim's info on zoom versions and cams etc. will be most useful.

I still have my Minolta X700 (and the SRT101 which got me into serious SLR photography) and the Minolta 35-70 zoom, and I've plenty of Kodachrome slides from that combination. I think I bought the zoom from my local Boots when they decided that they were getting out of half-serious photography.