Frames and prints!

[Muffin]

I visited a local frame and photo shop today to investigate both prints and frames. I was told that the only way to get permanent prints was to go the Noritsu route and an A3 print would cost me £15. They had all the Noritsu equipment and could do very large prints. I had never heard of Noritsu but I was assured that they were the best in terms of colour accuracy and permanency.

I told them that I was using Canon stuff and they weren't impressed. I also said I was intending to try Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl and they said it was rubbish and it would fade.

I looked at some of the frames but a simple A3 frame was £50 so I rapidly lost interest.

Is there any truth in this stuff about Noritsu?

I am a little worried about prints that fade rapidly and must be viewed under glass. I find glass is a nuisance because of the reflections - I am told that Nova glass solves this problem! I might start making my own frames. I am sure I can do better than £50 for an A3 frame.

[Fen]

Noritsu (AFAIK) is Fuji

Canon inks are known to fade quicker than Epson inks.

As far as Canon vs Noritsu - No idea

[Muffin]

Yep! I cannot understand why my Canon carts have 13ml of ink and the Epson carts have 80mls!! I begin to regret being canonised - certainly in terms of printing.

[Roger_Provins]

Noritsu are makers of professional printers, mainly of the mini-lab type. They can use different makes and types of paper.

I've found Epson printers to be very good and I use either Epsons own paper or Ilford. I have prints on the wall in full daylight and they have not faded in 6-7 years. By this time I would have expected colour prints I did the old film/chemical way to have considerably faded (excluding Ilford Cibachrome which lasted forever) so I'm very happy with digital

You'd need to price Canon versus Epson inks as a whole and how many prints they delivery per £ ... I'd not be surprised to find little in it.

Making frames is quite easy. If you don't already have woodworking equipment the best way to start is to buy a framing kit from the likes of <APTC>. B&Q and others sell all sorts of picture framing timber strips. After you've made a couple it's dead easy.

[Muffin]

Roger - my thanks for the 'gen'! I think you are right about making picture frames and I have a suitable workshop to do so. I priced Nova glass (the none reflective stuff) and a 2mm thick A3 piece is about £3-80p. I gather the glass is acid etched and it may be slightly 'frosted' but it is claimed not to degrade the mounted photo.

If I buy some moulding etc I am sure I can produce an A3 frame for only a few quid. Mattes are going to be a problem and they may be essential. I don't like filling a frame with a print and I tend to use A3 frames for A4 prints. I suspect the print should be separated from the glass a little.

I fully agree about digital photography. I recall my days in the dark room and it wasn't much fun and only for B&W prints! Digital photography has opened up a whole new world providing you are prepared to get involved.

Epson printers do seem to be very popular but my i9950 isn't bad - except for the price of the inks. I am looking forward to trying the Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl which is alleged to be good.

[Roger_Provins]

... Mattes are going to be a problem and they may be essential. I don't like filling a frame with a print and I tend to use A3 frames for A4 prints. I suspect the print should be separated from the glass a little.

Of course one can buy sheet material and cut out the aperture but at prices like these is it worth the effort? There's plenty more sellers of ready cut mattes on eBay (and elsewhere).

[Malcolm_Stewart]

...I looked at some of the frames but a simple A3 frame was £50 so I rapidly lost interest.
...
I am a little worried about prints that fade rapidly and must be viewed under glass. I find glass is a nuisance because of the reflections - I am told that Nova glass solves this problem! ...

As far as I'm aware, there are 3 types of glazing material for prints.
A. Ordinary glass or plastic sheet - easily noticed specular reflections
B. Textured glass or plastic which can appear to reduce reflections by scattering the reflected light.
C. Coated glass which reduces reflections to a small fraction of A.

Some years ago I wanted to mount an inkjet A3+ print behind glass. Much of the interest was in the shadow areas, so controlling reflections was important. The mounters offered A & B, but the reflections were too high. They had a small sample of C, and it was obvious that that was the only solution for my print. A few days later, they phoned having ascertained the price! I confirmed the order (in the region of £80-£100), and I've had the print on my wall since then.

I've had other inkjet prints mounted in "test" positions to indicate fading due to daylight, and exposure to the atmosphere, and it's obvious that for longevity keeping prints in a folder is beneficial.
My printers have always been Epson, and prints from the early 600 model have fared the worst. Some non-mounted prints from my Epson 1270 on Pictorico glossy film have also shown fading, but I've yet to notice any problems with fading on Epson glossy paper from my 1270 and R220 printers. (All my results are in domestic non-accelerated conditions.)

Hope my experience helps!

I leave my printers ON and have very little problem due to nozzle blockage, despite sometimes not printing for several weeks.

(I've tried other non Epson papers over the years, from cheap to "Prestige" and I've always returned to Epson - and I don't work for them!)

[LargeFormat]

I leave my printers ON and have very little problem due to nozzle blockage, despite sometimes not printing for several weeks.

So do I. It avoids the copious amounts of ink it uses doing a head clean when turned on and I've never had a problem.

Noritsu are makers of professional printers, mainly of the mini-lab type. They can use different makes and types of paper.

Both silver halide and inkjet.

I always get suspicious when someone starts rubbishing the opposition.

[mrganderson]

Things have really improved over the last few years and your standard canon and epson inks should last a long time even behind glass. I recomend a good quality paper such as Fotospeed Natural textured or Canon photo paper plus II, for a gloss finish. I also use epson premier gloss which prints great on my canon printer. However I have just switched to canon from epson due to blockage problems. its a very common problem with epson's.

Finally. Dont put gloss prints behind glass. you'll get problems with refections. Stick to matt or a velvet finish

[Muffin]

Some excellent responses for which my thanks. I am still grappling with the problems of producing lasting decent prints! I had concluded that gloss prints behind glass were a no-no and I am about to try Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl.

[Muffin]

I am now trying Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl and it does look OK but I am having some problems with the printer profile supplied by Ilford. My prints are looking a bit 'pink' when I print them from CS2. They look all right on the monitor!

I think framing is important and I managed to get an excellent text from Amazon - 'Picture Perfect Framing' by Katie DuMont. It is a quite large hardback and available as new for only £1.60p - I think I paid a total of about £4 delivered. I am hoping to use the Nova non-reflective glass.

[Roy5051]

Are you applying the profile to the photograph on screen before printing?

[Muffin]

Aaaaagh! I am not sure! When I go to 'Print with preview' in CS2 I make sure the correct profile is in the profile box. Should I be doing something with the profile when the print is on the monitor before I print?

I think I am doing all the right things in CS2. On the Print page I set 'let PS determine colours', shove in the correct printer profile, set Relative Colorimetric and black point compensation ticked.

On the Properties page I set Colour Adjustment to 'manual' and then to 'set'. I then set 'none' in the print type box.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

[Roy5051]

I have used a firm called ProAm for large prints, and they ask you to assign their printing profile to your picture before you save it to CD. The method they suggest in CS2/3 is "Go to Edit, Go to Convert to Profile, Click on DESTINATION SPACE, and select their profile (which you have previously downloaded from their site), and click OK. This then enables them to print your picture without adjusting their printer.

I just wonder whether, if you are using a special profile, you should use that method and convert it to your special profile before printing. It is worth a try.

[Muffin]

Roy - my thanks! I will try what you say - it sounds good - and report back. Sadly my expertise with computers and CS2 is not brilliant. I have been reading Martin Evening and his book about CS2 and it is mind boggling.