Kit advice

[Zou]

First things first - I haven't the money right now to go out and buy a new camera. I now have a range of cameras covering all current interests. The one that eludes me is a proper medium format system camera. Over the next couple of years I hope to be able to get into a position to purchase some serious kit. I have some key criteria, and a few ideas to get me started. What I need is advice on what to go for.

Ideally I want a 6x6 SLR. I like the format, but I'd also consider a 6x7. At some point I'll play about with TLRs and rangefinders but for what I have in mind an SLR will be best. What do I have in mind? Landscapes, still life, some macro/close work (not too high magnification though), and the occasional portrait. I need to be able to see the subject clearly, so a bright screen or the ability to replace the factory item with a better alternative is very important. A WLF would be fine, but prism finder also considered so long as it is bright enough. Ideally something with changeable backs, just in case I find something worth shooting in colour and black and white. I don't think it matters if it is a leaf shutter or focal plane shutter, as I don't intend to use flash, I like my lighting 'available.' I understand that such cameras are by nature hefty, but it has to be portable and handholdable. It may spend most of its life on a tripod but there will doubtless be times when it must be handheld. My number one deal clinching point is that it has to be all mechanical, I don't want something which is dependent on batteries.

As for the system itself, I'm thinking body, WLF and prism finder, 2 or 3 120 backs, and lenses in 40mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lengths. They don't need to be fast, just sharp.

All the above points me in one logical direction - the Rollei SL66 series. The reversable mount for the standard lens and the bellows focusing seem perfect for close up stuff, the movements seem handy, and the lenses are top notch, I hear. The second choice is a Hasselblad 5xx series.

If I were to go 6x7, then the Mamiya RB67 seems a good choice, but how do they compare to the two systems just mentioned?

As mentioned, I'm not about to go out and buy the lot tomorrow, rather I am thinking about the long term, putting together a great system piece by piece, picking up the bits when I see them at good prices, rather than saving up £2-3k to buy all at once. On that note, have I missed any other contenders? Time is on my side to research the alternatives, but so far, I haven't found anything which seems to hit the spot.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

[mediaman]

Well, the Bronica SQ series is also quite highly regarded.
The lenses available are very good. [I have 40mm 50mm 80mm 150] backs come as 120 or 220....6X45 or 6X6.
A speed grip [or even a SQAM with built in drive] should see you all right.
RB67 ? perfectly fine... same range of lenses [more or less] similar with backs [6X45 option..120 and 220] but some people can find them heavy and awkward to handle.
Either system should suit your needs, and will be cheaper than the Rollie SL66 system.

[frank1]

You might want to check an add in Gumtree in the camera section. I would give you the link but I think I might get a slap. Please take note mods I'm only being neighbourly and not wishing to cause a cafufal.

[Malcolm_Stewart]

... All the above points me in one logical direction - the Rollei SL66 series....

I went through similar thoughts two or three years ago, and bought a Rollei 6006 about 18 months ago. Big mistake.

I don't know how it compares with the SL66, but there's no way I'd recommend a used 6006. It's very complex mechanically and electrically, and the film back has to mate correctly with the mirror box part. The NiCd battery has to be in tip top condition for it all to work. The film insert is flimsy - only 1 of my 3 has no cracks. I did manage a few sharp exposures with the CZ T* 80 f2.8 Planar, but film transport was simply unreliable. Whether a less heavily used film back would cure the problems, I'm not sure, and unlikely now to find out!

[zx9]

I agree with Malcolm, back in the late 80's I worked for a pro-dealer, we would not entertain trade-ins on SL66 and 6006 etc. We could always sell a good used 500cm or RB, SQ and RZ we would be a bit more careful before making an offer but Bronica EC, Has' ELMs and Rollie SLRs were out of the question. I can not think they have improved over last twenty years.

[Zou]

Interesting thoughts. I was going to ask if the Rollei SL66 was known for reliability, but I think you have answered that already. Being fully mechanical (on earlier models at least) I had hoped that it would still be going strong despite the age (as for a Rolleiflex say). I suppose that still leaves the Hasselblad as an option for 6x6.

I could 'bite the bullet' and consider something electrical but I always have reservations about reliability and longevity when it comes to battery operated cameras. In that case I would probably be drawn to the Pentax 645N-II, as ergonomically it suits me, and I could use the lenses with an adaptor on my Pentax 35mm/DSLR cameras. Head scratching time I think.

[Benchista]

Interesting thoughts. I was going to ask if the Rollei SL66 was known for reliability, but I think you have answered that already.

Actually, I don't think anyone has - the SL66 is a lot more reliable than the electronic versions.

[zx9]

Interesting thoughts. I was going to ask if the Rollei SL66 was known for reliability, but I think you have answered that already.

Actually, I don't think anyone has - the SL66 is a lot more reliable than the electronic versions.

I don't know why they were on the do not trade list Nick, though they did have bellows focusing (difficult to check in the shop) which allowed a bit of lens tilt. IIRC they had a focal plane shutter with restricted flash sync. speed so perhaps that is why they were un-loved.

[Mojo_66]

Never used one but the Bronica SQA seems to fit your needs. 6X6 and interchangable backs. For close up stuff though you can't go far wrong with a Mamiya 330 and a paralax adaptor, it's a bit rudimentary but it works. I have used one of these, the results are impressive, nice contrast and pin sharp.

[Zou]

Thanks for the input so far. I keep forgetting just how old a lot of these cameras are. Yes they may be well built, but if anything does go wrong, parts may be a nightmare to find/fit.

Having given this a lot more thought, the thing that seems to spring to mind is 5x4. I already have some of the gear, and with roll film backs I could have the best of both worlds.

Decisions decisions...

[Wheelu]

I have a Bronica set up. It can produce very good results but it is heavy and cumbersome to cart around and therefore does not get as much use as perhaps it should. Moving to 5x4 would make the problem a good deal worse. I would think very carefully about this!

[abrucephoto]

The SL66 is a stunning camera, it's loved by many, one look at the fan site says it all http://www.sl66.com/
My friend owns a SL66 and loves it, however sadly she will be selling it soon (it will be going up on ebay, so keep a look out) as she has bills to pay and only pennies to her name..
I can't remember, but there is one photographer especially who made amazing photographs with one.
It certainly seems a much more sound camera than the rollei 6000 series, I have a friend who is always messing with his 6003 as the electronic wind-on often doesn't engage, having said that I have two friends with the later 6008 model who ave had no problems at all, and ergonomically they're lovely cameras, and stunning lenses.. My 6003 friend recently had two stunning 2metre square prints made from Metro's new OCE lightjet printer which really showed the quality of the lenses.
The RB's or RZ's system are pretty infallible though. We all know how reliable they are and there certainly is no shortage of parts/second hand market.
For really good camera for hardly any money then the Mamiya TLR's are great, my girlfriend has the C330f and it's lovely, really ingenious camera, just a shame that the lenses aren't at the same standard as with the other cameras mentioned...
there is the fuji 680 also, which is similar to the RB/SL66, but i think would be far from ideal for you..