Only Erwin could make this comparison................

[parisian]

M8.2 v D3
I am not quite sure why he did this

[TimF]

Just about to read it, but I love the ad at top. Leica prices start at$223.50 - if only!

[Learning]

I nearly missed this thread. It is worth a cross reference from the Nikon forum.

[parisian]

Ah, well, Ms Red we tend to be a little choosy about where we allow our gems to be seen

[TimF]

I am not quite sure why he did this

Yes, I can see that. On the other hand he does make the invaluable point that in the end all photographs boil down to aperture, shutter speed, focused distance and focal length.

[huwevans]

Ah, well, Ms Red we tend to be a little choosy about where we allow our gems to be seen

Err, was that you cancelling your Nikon Owners' Union card and handing back the key to the Nikon Chat forum's executive loo? I'm surprised at you, Peter.

[parisian]

I wish a few on here would recognise that Tim but his final statement is tantamount to a declaration of war - so I'll post it just for fun

Both cameras are formidable performers. The Nikon scores with speed and dynamic automation, the Leica needs skill and dedication. But when you see an excellent Nikon picture, the camera takes the credit for 75%, where in the case of the Leica the user takes 90% of the credits. When using the Leica M8, you use the bare essentials of the photographic process and your own skills to get the picture. The Nikon D3 is a most flexible instrument to get the job done, but you are more removed from your own skills and thus the pride of accomplishment is less.

[Barney]

I wish a few on here would recognise that Tim but his final statement is tantamount to a declaration of war - so I'll post it just for fun

Both cameras are formidable performers. The Nikon scores with speed and dynamic automation, the Leica needs skill and dedication. But when you see an excellent Nikon picture, the camera takes the credit for 75%, where in the case of the Leica the user takes 90% of the credits. When using the Leica M8, you use the bare essentials of the photographic process and your own skills to get the picture. The Nikon D3 is a most flexible instrument to get the job done, but you are more removed from your own skills and thus the pride of accomplishment is less.

IIIIIINNNNNNCCOMING!!!

[huwevans]

I wish a few on here would recognise that Tim but his final statement is tantamount to a declaration of war - so I'll post it just for fun

Both cameras are formidable performers. The Nikon scores with speed and dynamic automation, the Leica needs skill and dedication. But when you see an excellent Nikon picture, the camera takes the credit for 75%, where in the case of the Leica the user takes 90% of the credits. When using the Leica M8, you use the bare essentials of the photographic process and your own skills to get the picture. The Nikon D3 is a most flexible instrument to get the job done, but you are more removed from your own skills and thus the pride of accomplishment is less.

Okay, I'll bite - just for fun!

I guess I'll have to read the article in its entirety some time to do it justice, but for now, taking that quote in isolation, I'd have to say it sounds like one of the most f*ckwittedly stupid statements ever to be made about photographic equipment. I'll be fascinated to know how he justifies it - on the face of it it sounds like it must have come from someone who knows nothing whatsoever about photography.

Certainly, from my own experience - including my own beginnings in photography with a rangefinder, through manual 35mm SLRs, medium format SLRs and rangefinders, large format cameras of various types, and now modern automated DSLRs, if it's really the case that when I switch (as I often do) from, say, a Mamiya 6 to a Nikon DSLR to a 5x4 monorail to an unmetered F2, and back again, that there's really a shift of some 65% of the picture-taking nous credited to the camera or to me, depending on what I'm using at the time, then frankly I must have been in a deep sleep for the last 35 years - at least whenever I've picked up a camera!

No - this is just pretentious twaddle for massaging the egos of committed Leicaphiles - s*d all to do with photography! And TBH, it's tripe like that that tends to feed the Leica 'bashers' I was mentioning the other day.

In fact, I think it's time for another outing for this handy little device:




Yup - pretty conclusive, I reckon.

[parisian]

Bloody brilliant Huw. An absolute tonic on a wet, cold, Sunday morning. The funniest post I have read for ages. More fun than Will tripping over a goat and impaling himself on a daffodil.
Happy St Davids day

[huwevans]

More fun than Will tripping over a goat and impaling himself on a daffodil.

Nevertheless, that's not a bad picture idea - I shall see if I can't get that one at some point this year. [Magnum, here I come! ]

[Benchista]

Well it's obvious what Erwin's on about, isn't it? No self-respecting photographer worth his/her salt would buy a poxy Nikon, so a decent picture produced on a Nikon is down to luck and the camera's ability, whereas with the superior sort of photographer who uses a Leica, their skill will always shine through.

[parisian]

There could be a grain of truth in there Nick, however he did at least consider testing the Nikon rather than any of the Gasfires

[Benchista]

There could be a grain of truth in there Nick, however he did at least consider testing the Nikon rather than any of the Gasfires

Of course - they would've completely undermined his argument.

[TimF]

Of course - they would've completely undermined his argument.

Whoops! typo.

Of course - they would've completely underlined his argument.

There, sorted.

[Benchista]

Of course - they would've completely undermined his argument.

Whoops! typo.

Of course - they would've completely underlined his argument.

There, sorted.

That Nikons are cr@p? Undoubtedly.

[Benchista]

Well I've read the article now - and it's total, total cobblers. At the heart of it is simply the difference between a rangefinder and an autofocus SLR - there's hardly anything radical in that. But he's dressed it up in so much Erwinese that it's hard not to think of it as the more pretentious kind of tripe. Sad really, as I do generally enjoy Erwin's thoughts, but this load of tosh simply made me mildly annoyed. Huw, it's off the scale of your meter.

[El_Sid]

Erwin, Puts or Putz?..........

[Mark_Norton]

Yes, he redefines the term "Wind Bag", IMHO.

[Clive]

I have always been a fan of Erwin, and I think that here he is stating the obvious. It may help someone decide between the two, or he may be simply emphasising the differences between the two cameras in case someone imagined it could be a comparison of like with like.

I have been a Leica cameraman for over 10 years, but I personally would prefer to spend on complementing the D3 system than going the Leica way on this choice.