Amateurs stung by copyright rule

[huwevans]

For sure they'll get a lot of dross, but there's a good chance they'll get what they are really after - some usable snaps to promote their business for [****]-all.

Well, for $1500-worth of prizes, plus the costs of running the competition. Actually I'd have thought they could probably get what they want for less money by hiring a pro (or even a competent amateur) and getting him/her access to some container port for a couple of days - maybe two or three in different parts of the world to give it some global flavour - a few grand at the most.

Actually, I'm not too far from Southampton - I could make myself available, for, say, £500/day. ;-)

C'mon Huw - toe the line!

Oh no - this is much more fun! ;-)

[sey]

C'mon Huw - toe the line!

Oh no - this is much more fun! ;-)

round and round the mulberry bush!

Just a short obsevation. Many photographers may not have any expectations of monetary value/recompense for their work. But if one of their pics. does turn out to be a gem, then they have the full rights to it's value, and not be diddled out of it by smooth talking competition organizers.

Bet you learned something from your Dad, and you've never given a negative away, ever.

[huwevans]

Just a short obsevation. Many photographers may not have any expectations of monetary value/recompense for their work. But if one of their pics. does turn out to be a gem, then they have the full rights to it's value, and not be diddled out of it by smooth talking competition organizers.

Yes, but this is photographs illustrating the positive impact of container shipping that we're talking about - let's not get carried away here! How many memorable exhibitions of container shipping photographs have you been to? How many photography books have you got on your shelves featuring great container shipping photography of our age? I just think a little perspective is needed. (No pun intended.) :-)

Bet you learned something from your Dad, and you've never given a negative away, ever.

I certainly haven't, but then again I was never an army corporal in the years of post-war austerity, rationing still in place, and so on. For him, as I say, it was a good deal. For me it maybe wasn't, because I inherited his negatives, and would love to have had the chance to print that one. But then again maybe I wouldn't have had the negs from the roll that he got in payment - swings and roundabouts, eh?

I remember David Bailey saying something in the 'Real Blow-up' programme about his own beginnings in photography in the 50s while doing National Service - he had to hock his cameras to buy chemicals, film, and so on, and then come pay-day he would get the cameras out of hock to go shooting - it was a different world. We have to recognize that the 'worth' of things depends very much on who is doing the valuing, and what their circumstances are.

[sey]

you've exhausted me, I surrender gracefully



aside: were you in your school debating team/club?

what I enjoy most 'discussing' with you is the little pearls you throw out like the story about your Dad and David Bailey.

[TheFatControlleR]

How many photography books have you got on your shelves featuring great container shipping photography of our age?

Mmm, a gap in the market, methinks...

[huwevans]

you've exhausted me, I surrender gracefully

YESSSS!!! I win - I am invincible!

aside: were you in your school debating team/club?

Well, we didn't have a team or club as such, but in the Lower Fourth (aged 11-12) my Latin master was also the English master, and he was very keen on holding debates during English lessons - a way of teaching us to be more articulate, I suppose. We were even more keen on them, because if handled right, we could persuade him to let us have debates instead of Latin lessons, or make sure that the debates dragged on long enough to run over into Latin time.

He was an affable chap during English lessons, but a terrifying monster in Latin, so you can see why we liked debates. :-) He could also be induced to go off into lengthy digressions on interesting subjects, if prompted with the right 'enquiring mind'-sort of question. It was quite an art, and one which we all practised as much as possible. :-) I'll never forget the day it occurred to me to ask him to explain why 'Latin America' was so-called - that was a one and three-quarter hour job: no Latin that day! :-)

From the form room, before a lesson, we could see him walking up Castle Place from his house in Edgar Street (this is Worcester, for those who know it), with pipe smoking away and gown flowing. If he was carrying a bright red book, that was his copy of Julius Caesar, the play we were theoretically supposed to be doing for English, and everything was okay. If it was light blue, or - worse - pink, that was either Mentor or Civis Romanus - the Latin books we used. And then we knew we had maybe two or three minutes to work out a strategy for distracting him with a suitable question, or somehow persuading him to let us have a debate. Failure simply wasn't an option - we were far too scared of the consequences.

It was all very tense and nervous stuff, but at least it made me the man I am today. :-)

But I digress...

what I enjoy most 'discussing' with you is the little pearls you throw out like the story about your Dad and David Bailey.

Ah - the old skills haven't deserted me then!

[Paul_R]

From the form room, before a lesson, we could see him walking up Castle Place from his house in Edgar Street (this is Worcester, for those who know it), with pipe smoking away and gown flowing. If he was carrying a bright red book, that was his copy of Julius Ceasar, the play we were theoretically supposed to be doing for English, and everything was okay. If it was light blue, or - worse - pink, that was either Mentor or Civis Romanus - the Latin books we used. And then we knew we had maybe two or three minutes to work out a strategy for distracting him with a suitable question, or somehow persuading him to let us have a debate. Failure simply wasn't an option - we were far too scared of the consequences.

It was all very tense and nervous stuff, but at least it made me the man I am today. :-)

I wonder if he was aware of this and maybe played along with you guys?

[huwevans]

I'm sure that sometimes he did - but I'm equally sure that when he got angry his temper was frighteningly real. I won't describe the worst incident, because frankly it was out of character (despite what I said above), and at his best he was really one of the most genial and friendly masters we had. His bark, you could say, was worse than his bite. But he barked so aggressively that we were literally terrified of him.

The thing about the long digressions (where I do suspect he might have played along with us) was that he was apt to ramble - he would set off on one topic and then shoot off at a tangent here, there, or anywhere. The trick for us was to chip in with the right question at the right moment so we could get another tangent going just as he was drawing to a conclusion on the previous one. As I say, if handled well he could be going for easily an hour or more, and if we were lucky there would be only twenty minutes left, say, out of a double period for doing Latin. If we were really lucky he'd reach the end of a lesson whilst still in full flow on some subject, and tell us to remind him to pick up where he'd left off next time.

Friday afternoons were sometimes good - that was when the CCF drilled on the yard just next to our form room. So, often there would be a squad of the basic training year drilling about as well as you'd expect a bunch of 15 year-olds to drill, and he hated to see poor drilling. So, every so often he'd get to watching them, and if someone was out of step he'd fling open a window and bellow at them across the square. It didn't improve his temper, but it did give us valuable thinking time. :-)

[Photocracy]

I was going to say something about the earlier copyright issue, but quite honestly Huw, I've enjoyed your tale of the latin master like a bed time story and it would seem rude to disrupt the serene atmosphere.

[huwevans]

I've enjoyed your tale of the latin master ... and it would seem rude to disrupt the serene atmosphere.

I wish someone had told him that! :-)

Anyway, glad it was of interest - I certainly look back on it with rather more fondness than I felt at the time! :-)

[Paul_R]

I've enjoyed your tale of the latin master ... and it would seem rude to disrupt the serene atmosphere.

I wish someone had told him that! :-)

Anyway, glad it was of interest - I certainly look back on it with rather more fondness than I felt at the time! :-)

Isn't that always the case!

[Benchista]

But if you do manage to sell a copy of that photo for that price... I'll sue for breach of idea

I'm sure we could reach an acceptable out-of-court settlement. :-) In fact, here and now I'll promise that if I ever do sell it for £1m, I'll give you half of it. Just to show good faith, I think you should reciprocate, and send me a cheque for half of what you've already received for yours. ;-)

Objection...