EOS 5D Woes

[Gen_bunty]

David,

Let us know how you get on with Jessops. I have to say that in my case they had no problem with refunding me in full, both quickly and efficently.

Sorry to hear that the second 5D suffered fromt the same issue.

It looks like Malcom's camera also has the same problem.

James

[Lounge Lizard]

I agree with James. I already have a 10-22 lens and am very pleased with it. It increasingly looks like the 30D is the way to go for me. It has all the mod-cons of the 5D (Picture Styles, large LCD, spot meter etc.) but without the big sensor and the vignetting issues that go along with it. Even the 30D shutter sounds a lot quieter like the 5D (as opposed to the noisy 'clack' of the 20D).

So, I think James and I will be happier bunnies with the 30D and will wait until things get better further down the road.

[Riza]

Hi David, Im one of the unhappy EOS 5D buyer, All the reason why its the same with you its vignet or light falloff whatever they call it, still for my eyes it is something annoying.
Canon Reps. office in my country allow me to exchange it with 30D with some refunds., but for me its not the point.
I want to have a pro-camera from the no.1 brand in the world, seems that I have pick the wrong choice.
No further answer from Canon Asia Pacific, Im just being ignored.
If you have a contact email for the more responsive parties at canon it would be good, just want them to announce some kind of firmware, or somehow fix the problem or else.
Right now I just dont feel happy to use my "expensive" camera arround.

Regards.

[Lounge Lizard]

Hi Riza

I did get your e-mail and was going to respond tonight but it's great that you have joined us here.

The conclusion that I am coming to (as well as others - see evidence here for example), is that this is a purely optical phenomenen that we never noticed when shooting on film and wouldn't see with a cropped sensor. It may not be a fault with the camera just the compromises made in designing lenses to fit a 35mm frame.

I am tempted to swap my 5D for a 30D because this isn't going to be fixed overnight - Canon will have to design better lenses for the future and incorporate features in the camera body or firmware to alleviate this. Meanwhile, I'll use a 30D because I'll know that I can then shoot at any aperture without this issue.

I would have expected Canon to issue some kind of statement clarifying the matter in their defence but with litigation law, I doubt that they'd want to admit to anything in case of legal claims even if it is the laws of physics or optics that are to blame.

[Done_rundleCams]

Hi David,

I'm not entirely unhappy with my Pentax IST*Ds so should I look at buying an EOS 5D so,perhaps, I can be entirely unhappy?

Dazed and in Vancouver

[Lounge Lizard]

I don't think that anybody can be entirely unhappy with the 5D, just that they can be very unhappy with the things that affect them badly.

[Riza]

Thank you David, I have the same intention too, Canon should responsible for this.
Law of Phisics: Heavy things, fall down to earth, but aeroplane can fly.
For image experienced big company, Vignett/Light fall off is something that must be easyly and corectively done,

and all Eos 5D user can return their trust to the company.

[James_Symington]

Dear Riza,

Unfortunately that is not the case - it is extremely difficult if not impossible to correct light fall off on lenses shot wide-open and particularly if they are wide angle. It happens to any lens on any camera of any format always and is just a fact of life like the sun coming up in the east.

All the best,

James

[TerryS]

Peter wrote:
i have been told if i purchase a 30d i will not be able to use the same lenses on a full frame digital; so later upgrading to a full frame maybe falso economy as i would need to purchase a new set of lens.

As others have already pointed out this is completely untrue as long as you restrict yourself to Canon's EF mount lenses and avoid their EF-S mount lenses (and similarly avoid reduced image circle lenses that are designed for cropped sensors from other third-party lens producers - Sigma's DC lenses (DG are okay) and Tamron's Di II lenses (Di are okay)).

Personally I don't particularly care about the size of the sensor per se - I would be happy with 1.6x, 1.3x or full frame as long as the camera body met my other (more important to me) requirements. In this respect I am waiting for Canon to produce a 30D/5D form factor body with the build quality of the 1D series (ie. very robust and with weather sealing) and the excellent AF system of the 1D series, so until such a body appears I am keeping my options open with regard to lenses and buying only full frame lenses (EF or equivalent) for use with my 10D and 30D bodies. For example, for 'normal' shooting I typically use either the 17-40mm f4 or 24-105mm f4 or 50mm f1.4, all of which work perfectly on the 10D & 30D and will continue to work perfectly with whatever I buy in the future regardless of whether it has a 1.6x, 1.3x or full-frame sensor.

Terry.

[alanS]

(deep sigh.)

EF-S (and similar) lenses - lets say £500.
Keep it for a year or two and then sell it, lose, lets say £200. Over a year or two that doesn't seem a lot to lose considering they are good lenses specifically designed for use with the cameras they fit.

I can see however that I'm alone in this belief.

[Lounge Lizard]

To be fair James, Riza has a point and it is something I have been hinting all along. For example, physics tells us that light is made up of a range of wavelengths and these all converge at different points when focussed by a lens. The solution is to use compound elements made up of glasses with differing refractive indices to counter this and cause convergence onto a single plane. Nearly all lens makers offer solutions doing just this including Canon in their L range.

So, I would dare to suggest that light fall-off is perhaps the biggest single issue affecting image quality right now and in an age where a lens can have a gyro and one or more microcomputers built into the lens barrel to detect and compensate for camera shake by moving a lens element in real time, it is reasonable to suppose that fall-off might by tackled by a re-think of lens design, by improved image processing software, or a combination of both.

[TerryS]

(deep sigh.)

EF-S (and similar) lenses - lets say £500.
Keep it for a year or two and then sell it, lose, lets say £200. Over a year or two that doesn't seem a lot to lose considering they are good lenses specifically designed for use with the cameras they fit.

I can see however that I'm alone in this belief.

No, you are not alone in your belief because I agree that what you say is entirely reasonable, however you are answering a different question to the one that I was addressing. I was correcting the (apparent) misconception that there are no lenses that can be used on both a 30D body and a full-frame body, such that if one were to switch from the former to the latter it would be necessary to upgrade one's entire lens collection. Which is totally untrue.

Clearly it is possible to buy only EF-S (or DC or Di II) lenses and commit oneself entirely to bodies with APS sensors (or a total and (probably) expensive change of kit with any subsequent switch to a larger sensor), or one can choose to avoid these lenses entirely (if one does not mind losing extreme wide-angle capability, which I don't) and thus guarantee future compatibility, or one can choose to have a mixture of lens types, as you propose. I was just pointing out that the second option does exist, contrary to the original suggestion.

Personally, since I am not a great wide-angle user, the only EF-S lens that does tempt me is the 60mm f2.8 macro to complement my Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro which can be a little long (on a 1.6x crop body) for some subjects.

Terry.

[Riza]

If it is that difficult, or might be impossible to avoid vignett/light fall off, So Dont make a full frame sensor in digital camera then., it is just a simple logic right..?

I believe Boeing / Airbuss will not force themself to make a giant plane , but it cannot landing anywhere because no runway is long enough.
(Airbus A380, Giant of the sky, they extend the runways all over the landing airport destinations first before launch it to the market)
(Means, Canon should release also the "Full frame lens" together with EOS 5D when launch it to the market)

If they decided to do so, make sure all the equipment is perfect and available, and will not sacrifice customer's in the dark asking light fall off.
(I dont believe i say this to Canon Inc.....)

[Lounge Lizard]

I spoke to my dealer tonight who in turn spoke to a Canon technical guy today. They've had a number of complaints about this. Their explanation was that in the film days, commercial prints always lost a few mm off the edge so nobody noticed. With users seeing the whole image area, they are now seeing vignetting and are unhappy but it was there all the time.

I also feel that some lenses are worse than others and these lenses have probably been designed more recently for optimum performance is some areas at the expense of others. My dealer suggested using lenses 'designed for digital' to which I replied "Oh, you mean the 24-105 that was launched alongside the 5D and paired with it as a kit lens?" with a hint of sarcasm since that is one of the worst offenders.

My dealer also suggested allowing for the vignetting when I take the shot so I can crop it down later but I explained that the level of vignetting varies from lens to lens, from focal length to focal length and from aperture to aperture. I couldn't possibly remember how good or bad the vignetting is with all these combinations and I'd end up shooting in the central area of the viewfinder and probably end up with fewer pixels than a 30D for a given image.

Besides, when under pressue shooting a wedding, I want to concentrate on the lighting and composition and not have to also think about body/lens anomalies.

So, my mind is almost made up now to swap the whole lot for a 30D. Yes, I'm likely to be downgrading.

[alanS]

Does the 30D offer enough improvement over the 20D? I'd agree that it would be better to buy a 30D than a 20D but is there any incentive to upgrade from a 20D if you already have one?

To be honest I haven't looked at the 30D as I couldn't see any great advantage. I'd be interested to hear what the advantages are and how significant they are.

[Lounge Lizard]

There are no image quality enhancements - it's the same sensor. All the new features are usability improvements and will differ for each person. To me, they are:

• Bigger LCD (it's not until you've used that you realise that this makes image reviewing much better and menus are easier to see as well)
• Quieter shutter (much better for wedding work)
• Picture Styles (may not be a big deal but they certainly seem to create usable JPEGs straight from the camera)
• Ability to change ISO speed without taking eye from the viewfinder
• Spot metering

Other features like the Print button don't give me anything. Hope that helps.

[alanS]

Thanks for the information.

Of the improvements you list number 3 would interest me but I don't think it's enough to tempt me to upgrade from the 20D at the moment (I feel guilty when spending money on myself.) However, the image stabilisation and sensor clean technology promised by Sony might just tempt me if I can slip away from my girlfriend long enough (and sneak it into the car and upstairs once home.)

[Lounge Lizard]

the image stabilisation and sensor clean technology promised by Sony might just tempt me

I've got too much invested in Canon glass to jump ship now.

[Riza]

EOS 5D and 24-105, is my only and first Canon lens &Camera

Im jump off the ship now... bye, see you David.

[Riza]

Hi David, wonder if you might intrested to read this forum
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-...?msg_id=00Gtq2