Damien Demolder
Obi-Tharg-Koala
Reged: 22/08/2001
Posts: 1660
Loc: Essex born and badly-bred
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In the magazine this week the 'Icon of Photography' is Doisneau’s ultra famous ‘Le Baiser de l’Hôtel de Ville’ - the couple having a bit of a snog as they walk along the street (link to picture). Many years after the picture was taken it emerged that Doisneau had set the shot up - to quite what extent is not entirely clear - and that the remarkable moment was actually something of a work of fiction.
This week's poll asks Does it matter that Doisneau’s ‘Le Baiser de l’Hôtel de Ville’ was set up? Head to the home page to vote.
Thanks for playing.
Damien
New link inserted - Chris
Edited by Siuya (19/01/2009 16:06)
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Benchista
Which Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 42233
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Why should it matter?
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Simon_King
addict
Reged: 17/11/2006
Posts: 559
Loc: South Wales
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I don't think it matters, what count's is the emotion and atmosphere conveyed by the picture.
By the way the poster link doesn't work, or at least says that poster is no longer for sale.
Cheers
Simon
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My Gallery, My APOY 2010 Pictures
I wish for a time where we live in a more harmonious world, so that a chicken can cross the road without it's motivation being questioned!
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 10755
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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In terms of being a great picture it doesn't matter that it's a set up to whatever degree. It does become more of an issue if it's passed off as or viewers are allowed to assume that it is indeed real as that implies a degree of deceit - plus it doesn't do other photographers any favours as they become frustrated at being unable to catch similar moments of 'spontaneity' in the real world...
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN 
ElSid Gallery
Terrorist?............or potential photographer?....... 
There are no people more opressed than those who willingly opress themselves
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parisian
Over the hill and far away...
Reged: 10/02/2002
Posts: 9299
Loc: Môn mam cymru
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I think that the whole genre of 'street photography' would be a damn site poorer without occasional elements of 'set up' being applied.
If lucky circumstance were essential for the purity of the shot then half the stuff we have admired over the years would never have been taken.
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Hells pensioner - born to be mild
JustMono
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 6282
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Meh
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huwevans
The 'Not Really Here' Dude
Reged: 05/08/2000
Posts: 17161
Loc: Dorset, UK
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The picture is what it is, of course, and it must surely be granted that we can and perhaps usually just enjoy a photograph in precisely that sense. But, OTOH, I think it's also true that we often admire a shot for what we perceive as the photographer's skill in grabbing it on the spur of the moment, or in anticipating it just right. Or sometimes we just envy them their luck in being at the right place at the right time, and not having their hands full with something else when the moment passed.
Well, whatever. It doesn't really bother me that it was set up.
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Huw Evans.
     
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gollum
old hand
Reged: 18/12/2007
Posts: 881
Loc: Kent
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It is a great picture......but
Remember Hollister?...no...perhaps the Brando film the Wild One, may ring a bell.
The American Federation of Motorcylist, held race's across the USA, Hollister being one of them. Two journalist flew down from New York to cover the event, got bored, so decide to invent a story. To back their story they needed a picture, so they payed a local drunk to sit on a bike outside a bar, scattered a few beer bottles arround....and hey presto you have a picture that made the front cover of most news papers!
The AFM, defending their postion made the statement that 99% of their members were law abiding citizens and so the 1% outlaw biker was born 
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People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours
http://www2.clikpic.com/gollum/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gollums_photos/
Edited by gollum (19/01/2009 14:10)
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Terrywoodenpic
A whiff of silicon...
Reged: 21/01/2006
Posts: 919
Loc: Saddleworth UK
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Does not matter in the least....
she said the Kiss was real.
Most published street pictures have an element of pre-arrangement in them; even if it is only to get someone to look and smile.
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65 happy photo years from amateur to professional and back. Caught the bug Young.
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Malcolm_Stewart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/2005
Posts: 4457
Loc: Milton Keynes, UK
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Quote:
...(link to AllPosters version). ...
Thanks for playing.
Damien
It now seems that the poster is no longer on sale...
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Malcolm Stewart
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Siuya
Cool Hand Chris
Reged: 21/07/2001
Posts: 10698
Loc: Knackers yard!
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Quote:
Quote:
...(link to AllPosters version). ...
Thanks for playing.
Damien
It now seems that the poster is no longer on sale...
I've changed the link so it now goes to the site
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Chris
Anything I say MAY NOT be taken down and used against me 
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Damien Demolder
Obi-Tharg-Koala
Reged: 22/08/2001
Posts: 1660
Loc: Essex born and badly-bred
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...(link to AllPosters version). ...
Thanks for playing.
Damien
It now seems that the poster is no longer on sale...
I've changed the link so it now goes to the site
I don't know what's the matter with you all. It worked fine for me, see.
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See my photographs at www.wordsonpictures.com
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TimF
Taking it strictly
Reged: 30/07/2001
Posts: 18964
Loc: Herts/Beds border
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Of course it doesn't matter. Most of the best known Picture Post photos were set-up as well. They're still great images, and in the end that's all that counts.
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Tim BSRIPN
If I had all the money I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink
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LargeFormat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 24/10/2006
Posts: 1912
Loc: Cumbria and Buckinghamshire
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Well it sort of does matter. Whether the resulting picture is staged or spontaneous may not make a difference to the quality of the photograph but it does make a difference to how it is categorised. I have always tended to favour a photograph where the photographer has worked at it to get a particular effect rather than a "lucky" snap but that's just a personal view.
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Barney
Baht 'at
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 11481
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
Well it sort of does matter. Whether the resulting picture is staged or spontaneous may not make a difference to the quality of the photograph but it does make a difference to how it is categorised. I have always tended to favour a photograph where the photographer has worked at it to get a particular effect rather than a "lucky" snap but that's just a personal view.
I absolutely agree that it does make a difference but I'd argue that a spontaneous shot carries more weight with me at times than a posed one, especially with regards to street photography.
It's the difference between watching a natural history programme where the crew has laid bait for a tiger and one where the tiger's kill is a natural one, there's a question on integrity. That's not to say that the resulting image isn't a great one, but there's a world of difference between suggesting that a photo was just caught when in fact it was set up. Photography isn't just about the end result, there's a weight of responsibility that goes with the recording of a scene. As long as the situation is honestly reported then the viewer can make up their own mind, but to suggest otherwise, or not to correct when misconstrued, is wrong.
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"Wrong on so many different levels."
Blog - Contre Dour - Capturing the ordinary for posterity.
Flickr
Edited by NorthernNikon (19/01/2009 17:59)
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LargeFormat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 24/10/2006
Posts: 1912
Loc: Cumbria and Buckinghamshire
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Quote:
I absolutely agree that it does make a difference but I'd argue that a spontaneous shot carries more weight with at times than a posed one, especially with regards to street photography.
Fair point, I guess it makes a difference what the photograph is about.
Quote:
As long as the situation is honestly reported then the viewer can make up their own mind
and that's the real point.
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Barney
Baht 'at
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 11481
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
Quote:
I absolutely agree that it does make a difference but I'd argue that a spontaneous shot carries more weight with at times than a posed one, especially with regards to street photography.
Fair point, I guess it makes a difference what the photograph is about.
Oops, I left the "me" out of "carries more weight with me", just to clear it up.
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"Wrong on so many different levels."
Blog - Contre Dour - Capturing the ordinary for posterity.
Flickr
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zx9
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1873
Loc: London
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Quote:
Of course it doesn't matter. Most of the best known Picture Post photos were set-up as well. They're still great images, and in the end that's all that counts.
My thoughts exactly.
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Regards,
ZX9 (Keith Hudson)
My Flickr
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APchris
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/05/2006
Posts: 1932
Loc: Lincolnshire
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We were given a framed copy of this image as a wedding present and it hung on our bedroom wall for many years.
Interestingly enough I'd always thought it was pure street photography, the decisive moment and all that but I've just asked (non photographically inclined) Mrs APchris what her opinion was and she always thought it was set up and is surprised anyone could think otherwise as it "Looks too perfect".
When the set up was revealed it didn't matter to me at all and still doesn't. IMHO Doisneau was creating a representative work of art and not trying to deceive us.
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Chris
Better a bad day on the water than a good day at the office 
My Flickr sets
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Steve
Enough of a twit?
Reged: 08/06/2005
Posts: 2236
Loc: York
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I don't believe it matters that much. I like the ideal of grabbing spontaneous and magical moments on the street as they happen, but if the photograph emotion and makes someone smile, where's the harm?
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Steve
My Flickr
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