Nigel Atherton
WDC Editor
Reged: 16/05/2006
Posts: 269
Loc: Ministry of Magazines, London
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See Mike Owen from Canon Europe run through the main features of the new EOS 5D Mk.II here.
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Bawbee
Out on a whim
Reged: 06/05/2000
Posts: 7056
Loc: Dundee, Scotland, UK
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Sounds quite interesting Nigel BUT, you know when some people start 'talking' with their hands, it puts me off listening to what they are saying 
Maybe I'll try again and turn away from the screen - because, the more I hear and read, the more I want one. I'll wait until Feb '09 though  until the first euphoria quells and reality sets-in.
Edit: Will the article appear in an issue of WDC? It may tempt me to purchase my first copy
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Bawbee BSRIPN
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant."
Bawbee Louis Stevenson 1850-1894
Edited by Bawbee (23/09/2008 20:00)
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Paul_R
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 16/06/2006
Posts: 1968
Loc: Middlesbrough, England.
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I see every time you tried to get your mits on the camera it wasn't long before it was taken off you again Never mind, you'll just have to buy one like the rest of us 
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Regards, Paul CRIPN
http://www.pbase.com/exposethelight
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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No built in flash, that's all I ever use.
I'll wait for the 7D, or whatever.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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Scphoto
Little Fruitbat
Reged: 13/11/2005
Posts: 2565
Loc: Birmingham, UK
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The old one didn't have a built in flash (which is a plus for me), what did you expect?
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Happiness is a Kebab call donor - Pictures/Blog
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AGW
Reged: 03/10/2003
Posts: 7729
Loc: Ayrshire
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Surely it should have had a pop up video light and a big long hairy microphone.......William..oh William...its your cue!!!
Graeme
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AGW (BSRIPN)
Blessed are they who see beautiful things in humble places where others see nothing. (Camille Pissarro)
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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"what did you expect?"
On a £2K camera I don't think that a little built in fill flash would be too much to ask. It's much more discrete than a speed light and fine for occasional use, so yup, lack of is very disappointing for me.
For me it's a deal breaker, but Canon will survive without a sale to me.
I don't understand why people say that lack of a built in flash is a plus point. If it hasn't got one you can't use it but if it has got one you don't have to use it. Bit like video really, I'm not interested in it but I don't see lack of as a plus.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
Edited by alanS (24/09/2008 00:12)
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Scphoto
Little Fruitbat
Reged: 13/11/2005
Posts: 2565
Loc: Birmingham, UK
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Quote:
I don't understand why people say that lack of a built in flash is a plus point.
After using the built in flash (on older Eos Bodies) I've come to regard it as a compromise. It's not powerful enough for most uses and it's not directional. So it's pretty worthless to me.
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Happiness is a Kebab call donor - Pictures/Blog
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Malcolm_Stewart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/2005
Posts: 2578
Loc: Milton Keynes, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't understand why people say that lack of a built in flash is a plus point.
After using the built in flash (on older Eos Bodies) I've come to regard it as a compromise. It's not powerful enough for most uses and it's not directional. So it's pretty worthless to me.
One, admittedly rare, place where the built-in flash (on my 10D) was useful was when I wanted to photograph the inside of a bread oven which we came across in a stately home. It not only got me a picture of what was invisible due to being seriously dark, but the AF assist pre-flashes got the far side of the oven in focus.
Nowadays using my 5D, I frequently carry a small 220EX and an extension lead. I do have 3 550EX flashes and the ST-E2 for studio use, but they were last used about two years ago.
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Malcolm Stewart
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37849
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't understand why people say that lack of a built in flash is a plus point.
After using the built in flash (on older Eos Bodies) I've come to regard it as a compromise. It's not powerful enough for most uses and it's not directional. So it's pretty worthless to me.
Yup. Canon's better bodies have never had a built-in flash, for good reason. I suspect including one would put off an awful lot more people than it encouraged. The only problem I ever had with my 10D was the &%£*^£) built-in flash (when sand got in the mechanism, to be fair) - it weakens a camera too much for me, so not having it is a massive plus point. I carry a 420EX if I think there's the remotest chance of needing flash, and it's so much better than a built-in model, yet pretty small.
I know other manufacturers have included built-in flash on their more serious models, but it would make me very wary indeed, I must say, simply because I've had problems with them before.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4967
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
After using the built in flash (on older Eos Bodies) I've come to regard it as a compromise. It's not powerful enough for most uses and it's not directional.
Yet it still gives horrible "flat" photos.
IMHO in those situations where camera-mounted direct flash is suitable, you'd probably be better off using a compact. I can't see any point whatsoever in having built-in flash on a DSLR. If I really had to use it, a small clip-on manual flash mounted on the accessory shoe would be adequate.
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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I see a couple of uses for inbuilt flash. Firstly, I like available light shots but there are times when that simply isn't adequate or possible but I don't want to completely destroy the atmosphere or draw undue attention to myself by using a physically large set up and setting off a powerful flash. Secondly, I may want a small amount of fill flash. Not to illuminate a stage 20 yards away but to provide fill flash for something that's 3 or 4 yards away to enable me to get a more even looking and accurate exposure and avoid shadow if that's what I want to do.
For my usage I think that a small inbuilt flash is adequate, negates the need to carry a large flash unit, maintains the ambiance to a greater degree than an external flash unit and provides an adequate and more discrete solution in some circumstances.
I know that I'm not going to change anyone's mind over this and there are uses for which another light source will provide a better solution but I just don't want a large attention grabbing and mood changing set up and I can't see what's wrong with having a pop up flash. Flash unit fans can simply not use it in the way that I don't use scene modes. They're there but I don't have to use them, feed them, wash them or otherwise look after them, I simply don't use them. I use my 20D's inbuilt flash and doing without it as an option would be a pain.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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"a small clip-on manual flash mounted on the accessory shoe would be adequate."
Yes, I've seen someone use one of those but it adds to the bulk of the camera and if you haven't got it fitted you (obviously) have to get it out of your pocket or bag and fit it and by that time you may have missed the shot.
I don't agree that you'd be better off using a compact rather than a DSLR with a built in flash. I can't see where you are coming from at all with that comment, that just doesn't fit in at all with my experience either in use or looking at the quality.
I can't (and don't intend to) post examples but I have many shots for which I've used the internal flash, particularly as fill flash, and I don't think that I could have got anywhere near the quality with my compact. Ok I don't have fantastic kit, just a 20D and an LX2 but the LX2 with or without flash can't match what I get from the 20D, with or without flash. If fact, with flash the LX2 is considerably worse than the 20D with flash IMHO. And no, internal flash doesn't simply have to produce flat photo's. If it's not appropriate you don't use it, you use something else.
Like I said, I'm not going to change anyone's mind over this but as long as an internal flash is adequately sealed to prevent water / sand getting in I can't see a drawback to having one.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37849
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Like I said, I'm not going to change anyone's mind over this but as long as an internal flash is adequately sealed to prevent water / sand getting in I can't see a drawback to having one.
The other big reason not to want one is that they almost inevitably limit the size and brightness of the viewfinder by limiting the space available for the prism - that's one of the main reasons why Canon's most "serious" SLRs have never had one.
For the rather dubious benefit of a built-in flash, the downsides are far too significant IMHO.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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I'll just have to see how the market goes. I haven't spent a lot recently and I have promised myself a new camera and I was leaning towards FF (though I'd like to see a good comparative test of cropped FF and equivalent FOV APS-C - come on AP!!) so if there isn't a Canon FF body with a built in flash I might have to think about getting a pocketable add on for occasional use. But I suspect that there'll be a Canon FF camera (beneath the 5D level) with internal flash before too long.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37849
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
But I suspect that there'll be a Canon FF camera (beneath the 5D level) with internal flash before too long.
I wouldn't bet against that either. <speculation mode>Once the 40D and 5D stocks have disappeared, and the 50D and 5D Mk II prices have stabilised - say around PMA in February...</speculation mode>
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2536
Loc: Surrey
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I've not got a Canon but reckon having a built-in flash is great for fill-in, when you want a low power unit on the camera pointing straight forward, and also as a wireless trigger for other flash units. It's definitely useful.
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John
Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope, it does not exist?
R.D.Laing The Politics Of Experience
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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