Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
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Oly Micro 4/3 mockup - looks interesting, possibly.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
Edited by Benchista (22/09/2008 13:09)
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9463
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Now that does look like the sort of thing that some of us might be interested in...
Come on Oly!!! 
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN 
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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Iloca
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Reged: 06/12/2005
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Couldn't get the link to work.
olympus_micro_four_thirds
My initial reaction, utter rubbish.
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El Sid
Going potty
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Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
My initial reaction, utter rubbish.
Would you like to elucidate?
Doubtless the finished version will change somewhat from the mock up (after all the E3 came out a lot less ugly than feared) but the concept as shown fits what I would be looking for... A camera similar in form and size to APS/35mm compacts of later years with interchangeable lenses. If the sensor isn't over pixellated, the lenses are good and the price is not obscene than I could be tempted to raid the piggy bank...
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
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Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Couldn't get the link to work.
Looks like they moved the page. Working now.
Quote:
olympus_micro_four_thirds
My initial reaction, utter rubbish.
Not sure why you say that - looks nicely retro, and clean-cut. But I suspect it's far, far too early to pass judgement on it yet.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
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Iloca
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Oh it looks fine for what it is, a retro toy. No EVF, no controls, no pop-up flash (on a compact??), no sale to me.
I'd much prefer the Panasonic G1 which looks as though it would actually be a useable alternative to a DSLR in a package a fraction of the size.
So if thats the direction Olympus are going, fashion acessories, they can keep it. If I can afford it I'll go for an E-420 or a G1.
Thats not to say the type of camera shown won't sell, simply that it isn't for me under any circumstances. I was out last week with the E-3 and actually took an XA2 with me, It reinforced what I already knew (but hadn't experienced for a while), that I hate that type of camera TBH I find I have a totally detached view of the scene, I much prefer TTL or I suppose an EVF which is effectively TTL. No controls on the XA2 apart from 3 preset 'Scenes'? no thanks.
When the G1 was announced I was really surprised as it was completely different to what I predicted m4/3rds would be, Olympus have shown exactly what I predicted, a crappy P&S with a removeable lens which isn't going to be so compact with something other than a 25mm Pancake (I hate the term Pancake, whats the proper name)
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Iloca
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on the Olympus m4/3rds mock-up.
I read this on another forum.
Quote:
Well, at least it is nice and small so you can stamp on it easily.
Amen
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
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Hmmmm - the bits you say you need are the bits I'm glad it's missing, and the bits I would personally call toylike - EVF and a built-in flash. It looks to me as thought it may have enough controls from the back and top views, assuming that round dial to be something useful. That's the side where I'm reserving judgement - I think it'll be more XA than XA2, TBH. Well, I hope so. The Panasonic does nothing for me at all, though - it seems to be a complete waste of time and is very much what you and others were suggesting - aimed solidly at compact owners with no interest in DSLRs.
Quote:
I hate the term Pancake, whats the proper name
There isn't one - it's Pancake, really.
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Nick
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Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Bone_Idle
Mr Maybe
Reged: 28/07/2006
Posts: 1390
Loc: Bradford
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I really like the size, but it would be interesting to see what Oly have in mind, lens wise. I think they could make a big saving in size over the Panasonic ones if they can incorporate in body IS.
I've just bought a small Canon compact (A590IS) and I am impressed at how easy it is to operate without any dials (except the selector dial), it's only a press of two to set aperture/shutter speed and ISO. Hopefully Oly can implement something similar.
Not sure about the styling, but I think it might just be the colour, a black and chrome version would be nice!
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Thanks
Nick
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David648
newbie
Reged: 13/01/2006
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Another name for "Pancake" is "Dropped Scone".
Best regards to all.
David. 
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Iloca
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Clearly we're not going to agree on this one for a variety of reasons but I'll try to explain myself.
Quote:
Hmmmm - the bits you say you need are the bits I'm glad it's missing, and the bits I would personally call toylike - EVF and a built-in flash.
Personally I don't mind the absence of a pop-up flash but for someone coming from a compact or as an alternative to a compact I think it's a must.
Regarding the EVF, well I posted my thoughts on viewfinders in relation to m4/3rds on another forum, I'll copy it in at the end.
Quote:
It looks to me as thought it may have enough controls from the back and top views, assuming that round dial to be something useful. That's the side where I'm reserving judgement - I think it'll be more XA than XA2, TBH.
It depends again how the controls are accessed, it looks too menu driven for my liking, XA/XA2 it doesn't make much difference to me personally, I don't like that kind of thing.
Quote:
The Panasonic does nothing for me at all, though - it seems to be a complete waste of time and is very much what you and others were suggesting - aimed solidly at compact owners with no interest in DSLRs.
Firstly I don't agree with the comment "you and others" I think what I expected and what I wanted were vastly different, I'm not sure I 'wanted' what others suggested as quite a few were based on wild flights of fancy.
No looking at the spec of the G1 it could with a few limitations perform pretty much as a DSLR, it has sufficient controls and the EVF while not being as good (I assume) as an OVF on an SLR does offer some interesting IMO benefits, live histogram, live view of the effects of shutter/aperture changes, overlay of a wealth of shooting information and of course VF size isn't dictated by sensor size. I think the G1 is aimed at Bridge camera users, those who are familiar with advanced control options (compared to a compact) but don't want something as big as a DSLR while still wanting to be able to change lenses.
Olympus appear to be aiming at those currently using compacts but who would like a bigger sensor, Panasonic appear to be aiming a Bridge owners who want to swap lenses (and benefit from a larger sensor)
Quote:
Quote:
I hate the term Pancake, whats the proper name
There isn't one - it's Pancake, really.
Now that is disappointing
Form Function & Viewfinders
There seems to be some difference of opinion when it comes to the design of the G1 and the various forms of viewfinder that could/should be employed in the new m4/3rds series. The mock-ups were asthetically pleasing but neither featured an EVF. Clearly there has to be a viewfinder, they will not rely solely on the LCD for framing/composition so..........
As I see it there are 4 options (5 if you consider no viewfinder as an option)
a. Built in EVF
b. Hotshoe mounted EVF
c. Built in OVF
d. Hotshoe mounted OVF
In my view options c & d are out, they offer no advantage over an EVF, in fact they have considerable disadvantages that I won't go into.
The leaves options a & b, an EVF either built in or hot shoe mounted.
Personally I see little or no advantage in opting for a hotshoe mounted EVF other than making the camera more asthetically attractive when it isn't fitted. If it isn't fitted you either need to attach it prior to shooting or you frame on the LCD, if you keep it attached it's no more compact (probably less so) than a fixed EVF but much more fragile.
IMO the only practical option is a fixed EVF but there are various ways to execute the design, it could easily be done after the style of the E-300/330, DMC-L1 with a completley flat top design or the EVF and Pop-Up flash could be housed on the L/H side with the controls placed on the R/H side, a la Voigtlander Bessa. Of course this won't make the camera any more compact than the existing G1, the box size is likely to remain the same. Regarding the G1, neither the EVF/Flash Hump or the grip add to the effective size of the camera once a lens is fitted, even the 25mm?? prime lens will extend beyond the grip & EVF/Flash*
*The part of the EVF/Flash that extends beyond the lens mount.
I don't see a way to make an m4/3rds camera much more compact than the G1 while keeping the EVF so is it really down to 'style', is the G1 seen as not being 'Serious/Pro' looking and too much like a Bridge camera? If it resembled a rangefinder would it be more appealing to serious photographers even if it was in reality no smaller?
In my case if I'm honest I'd prefer more 'Serious' styling
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Iloca
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It seems that an m4/3rds camera from Olympus is at least a year away. At this rate we'll get a look at the Samsung (probably Canon/Nikon/Sony too) micro system before we see the Olympus offering. The way they're going they'll be lucky if they aren't history before then.
Unreal!!!
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
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I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you were wanting what I thought you were suggesting, if you follow my drift. 
Personally, I think that (depending on the controls) this could be very much what I was after. I would be MORE than happy with a hotshoe-mounted optical VF. It's what I've used with Leicas, and if it's good enough for them...
However, the rear screen would have to be state-of-the-art - even a year ago, I wouldn't have accepted a rear screen as the main viewing option, but technology has moved on to the state where the best are now pretty visible even in bright light, and have enough detail to make them more or less usable.
Now as long as there's a way to switch it into aperture priority and control the aperture with a simple, one function control (as with the XA), it passes my control test - I don't mind modes being selected by menu, I don't mind manual exposure being fiddly because I would use it 99% of the time in aperture priority. If it allows that, for me it's a very serious camera indeed and aimed very squarely at enthusiasts. If it doesn't allow that, then I would agree with your assessment of it.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37849
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
It seems that an m4/3rds camera from Olympus is at least a year away. At this rate we'll get a look at the Samsung (probably Canon/Nikon/Sony too) micro system before we see the Olympus offering. The way they're going they'll be lucky if they aren't history before then.
Unreal!!!
That is the worry.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Zou
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/02/2007
Posts: 2117
Loc: Edinburgh
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I'd take that with a nice shoe-mounted optical finder (and ideally DoF/hyperfocal markings on the lens). I think it looks fantastic, but may require a new line of slim lenses to fit the shape. Don't want to end up like this: http://www.cameraquest.com/nrf1000.htm
I'm also starting to think that with all Pentax's p*nc*ke ( ) lenses (15mm, 21mm, 40mm, 70mm and even the 35mm at a push) they could be in the ideal position to make something very similar to this Olympus mockup. 
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Iloca
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Quote:
Quote:
It seems that an m4/3rds camera from Olympus is at least a year away. At this rate we'll get a look at the Samsung (probably Canon/Nikon/Sony too) micro system before we see the Olympus offering. The way they're going they'll be lucky if they aren't history before then.
Unreal!!!
That is the worry.
Well yes and no, from my perspective if they aren't going to develop 4/3rds products in the direction that offers what I need then really it doesn't matter if they sink or swim. They're only useful to have around in that sense.
As it stands Panasonic m4/3rds looks like it will mature into exactly what I want, a compact alternative system to a DSLR rather than a compact back-up to an existing DSLR system so while I'd have preferred Olympus to release an m4/3rds camera based on the E-300/330 Panasonics Bridge styled version will do.
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Iloca
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Quote:
I'd take that with a nice shoe-mounted optical finder
You see I just don't get that at all, it's yesterdays technology and not very good at that. Apart from needing one for every lens or having a Turret style you have the problem of parralax error, the need to add it prior to shooting or the extra and awkward shape if you keep it attached. You may as well just have an aiming mark like a sighting compass.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
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Yup, an aiming mark would do well enough. More of an issue with zooms, of course.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Zou
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/02/2007
Posts: 2117
Loc: Edinburgh
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Well I for one tend to think if it ain't broke... I'd mostly (say 75% of the time) use such a camera with a 35mm (equivalent) lens, and would expect the OVF to be brighter and clearer for careful framing (not always necessary) than using the rear screen. For the remaining 25% (maybe 50/50 21/25mm equivalent and 90/100mm equivalent) I could make do with the screen.
I remain highly interested/optimistic about this little Oly, whereas for me the G1 offers so little size/weight saving over a normal SLR that its reliance on an EVF totally outweighs its (debatable) advantages.
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Iloca
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I think we're all looking for different things. A compact to use when I want something to carry in my pocket for a few snaps doesn't, for me anyway, need interchangeable lenses or a bigger sensor. Shoot jpeg and print at 7x5 and it'll be fine for the purpose. Want to print to A3? well I don't want a point and shoot in that situation regardless of what size the sensor is.
As it stands I have access to an Olympus C220 P&S, a C5050 which I can use as a P&S or with a bit of faffing around have significantly more control or a DSLR. A G1 would be a major step up from a C5050 with regard to control plus a better VF than the optical afterthought on the C5050. Again a G1 would give me (hopefully) the same or better IQ as my E-3, virtually the same degree of direct control but with slower AF (not wildly important to me most of the time) and while the EVF has disadvantages compared to an OVF it counters that with some added advantages over an OVF.
I'd rather pay for an all-rounder, smaller than a DSLR but bigger than a compact that I could use all the time rather than a selection of different cameras which could result in having the wrong one at the wrong time.
An m4/3rds version of the E-300/330 would be that camera, the G1 is as close as it gets and despite looking as if it would be bigger than an E-300/330 version probably isn't any bigger in reality. In fact apart from the lenses a G1 is hardly any bigger than the new Canon G10.
Canon G10 109 x 78 x 46 mm
Panasonic G1 124 x 84 x 45 mm
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