Malinois
Reged: 28/04/2001
Posts: 94
Loc: Yorkshire
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Hi,
I am just watching the market in camera bodies at the moment. Something that strikes me is that Nikon seem to have played all their cards and left Canon in a position of being able to watch the market from a major R&D perspective.
I think it has put Canon in a very strong position as they are likely not to put anything on the market unless it beats the latest Nikon lineup hands down.
(Just musing)
Ian
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Malcolm_Stewart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/2005
Posts: 2578
Loc: Milton Keynes, UK
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Does this mean that you know how long the development of an up-market DSLR takes?
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Malcolm Stewart
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Malinois
Reged: 28/04/2001
Posts: 94
Loc: Yorkshire
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No I don't but I am sure that those proffessionals egaged in industrial secret gathering do.
Ian
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4967
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
I think it has put Canon in a very strong position as they are likely not to put anything on the market unless it beats the latest Nikon lineup hands down.
Let's put it this way. Nikon have had an outstanding success with the D3 and found an obvious market for a less expensive full frame model (where Canon have had a "competitor" for ages). Canon do need to "evolve" the 5D sometime fairly soon but can't afford to make it too good because of the risk of undermining their flagship 1Ds model.
It's interesting but I don't think either company has a stranglehold. In most cases it will take a lot more than an upgraded model to persuade users to change brands.
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 3059
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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Quote:
It's interesting but I don't think either company has a stranglehold. In most cases it will take a lot more than an upgraded model to persuade users to change brands.
... and those that do jump ship find that in a month or two the brand they've just moved from comes out with something even better 
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Rog
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alanS
Dr Dust
Reged: 30/09/2005
Posts: 3650
Loc: Up North, England.
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I'm sure that Canon's marketing department are brilliant. They must be as they see a reason to introduce the 1000D which to me looks like a completely pointless camera. At the prices quoted in the mags anyway. I do hope that they introduce something interesting and affordable in the 40D and 5D sort of price segments but I wont hold my breath or be first in the queue.
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Alan's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."
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nspur
enthusiast
Reged: 20/07/2005
Posts: 297
Loc: Derbyshire
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I do agree about the pointlessness of the new Canon 1000D and I'm afraid that Canon may be starting to be more influenced by "marketing" people. If I were in the market for an entry-level Canon, the 400D as a refurb looks as good as it gets.
My 5D is looking overshadowed by the Nikon D700 but anyone who has a 1963 Vauxhall Victor in his garage (it's true) isn't much influenced by what's top of the pile ATM.
Let's hope that when Canon do produce a proper camera again it's a good one rather than a marketing statement.
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AGW
Reged: 03/10/2003
Posts: 7730
Loc: Ayrshire
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But they know that they know, about what they know. Its knowns and and unknowns that are the issue...who knows....
Graeme
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AGW (BSRIPN)
Blessed are they who see beautiful things in humble places where others see nothing. (Camille Pissarro)
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9463
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
I'm afraid that Canon may be starting to be more influenced by "marketing" people.
Starting?..........  
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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Malinois
Reged: 28/04/2001
Posts: 94
Loc: Yorkshire
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"Just because you are paranoid, it does not mean they are not watching you"
Ian
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37849
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
I do agree about the pointlessness of the new Canon 1000D and I'm afraid that Canon may be starting to be more influenced by "marketing" people. If I were in the market for an entry-level Canon, the 400D as a refurb looks as good as it gets.
My 5D is looking overshadowed by the Nikon D700 but anyone who has a 1963 Vauxhall Victor in his garage (it's true) isn't much influenced by what's top of the pile ATM.
Let's hope that when Canon do produce a proper camera again it's a good one rather than a marketing statement.
Clearly the 1000D isn't going to make sense at the SRP, but anyone who's followed the market for the last 20 years will know that Canon's marketing department is one of the best out there - so they will be fully aware of it. So the interesting question is really where the price will stabilise - it can't possibly be above the street price of the 450D.
As to the 5D being overshadowed by the D700, well, yes - but then it's not much more than half the price these days. I suspect the replacement has been more or less ready for some time in terms of sensor and body design, but the delay will have allowed them to revise details such as the AF system, firmware-dependant issues, and so on. I do wonder if it'll be a 3D or a 5D Mk II when it finally appears - my money was originally on the latter, but I suspect that the delay and the changed market conditions might make it more of the former - for now, it's all speculation.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7668
Loc: Doon the glen
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3D...yes please....and with off centre cross type AF points like the 1D. I don't really see the point in another 5D as it's good at what it does but there's room for a camera that's better for action than the 40D and more portable than a 1D IMO.
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Roytp
newbie
Reged: 31/12/2006
Posts: 8
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Do Canon have a flagship model?
Have you seen Rob Gilbraith's latest view on the 1D and 1Ds MkIII's?
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TimF
Senior Member
Reged: 30/07/2001
Posts: 16475
Loc: Herts/Beds border
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Quote:
As to the 5D being overshadowed by the D700, well, yes - but then it's not much more than half the price these days. I suspect the replacement has been more or less ready for some time in terms of sensor and body design, but the delay will have allowed them to revise details such as the AF system, firmware-dependant issues, and so on. I do wonder if it'll be a 3D or a 5D Mk II when it finally appears - my money was originally on the latter, but I suspect that the delay and the changed market conditions might make it more of the former - for now, it's all speculation.
Agreed. At least I hope so. The 5D was (and remains) a great camera. My gripe with it concerns the handling, as I can't stand the ergonomics (in manual exposure especially) of Canon's non-pro models (Nikon have generally the same one across the range). Given the high take up of the 5D amongst pro documentary photographers etc it's to be hoped the company will give any replacement a more pro feel. With luck we shall find out in six weeks or sooner (Photokina).
As for Canon's marketing genius; are we talking the same company here? This is the company whose UK arm denied there was any problem with the AF of the 1D Mk III, even when the American section had issued a statement about such things, and, according to a recent letter in BJP continued to do so right up to writing to individuals to recall their cameras for repair!
Maybe it's just Canon UK though. I've noted here before the comments of a staffer at a well known London dealer that the people at Canon UK are all idiots who don't know anything about the products of the comapny they work for. Nothing I've heard since then (and that was several years ago) gives any reason to change that opinion.
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Tim BSRIPN
You see something happening and you bang away at it. Either you get what you saw or you get something else--and whichever is better you print. - Garry Winogrand
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Learning
Ethelred the Ill-Named
Reged: 26/09/2006
Posts: 2334
Loc: Nottingham
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Quote:
but anyone who has a 1963 Vauxhall Victor in his garage (it's true) isn't much influenced by what's top of the pile ATM.
Wasn't the Victor one of the cars that got Vauxhall the reputation for making rust buckets? I don't think they would like you for reminding us that they ever made the things.
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4967
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Wasn't the Victor one of the cars that got Vauxhall the reputation for making rust buckets?
Yeah, looked wonderful (for about six months) - should have come with a lifetime's free supply of David's Isopon.
Fortunately, even DSLRs seem to last a bit better than that.
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9463
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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My Dad had a Victor 101 - brand new to rust bucket in 6 months.....
He swore he'd never buy another Vauxhall................never did either......
OTOH my only Vauxhall so far was a Nova GT/E which was a brilliant little car and I reckon the cheapest running and service costs I've ever had......... 
And once again we manage to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic!.....
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is better than one in the cupboard........
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4967
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
And once again we manage to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic!.....
Yeah, but the thread was unravelled anyway.
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barney britton
AP Technical Writer
Reged: 15/01/2007
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Hi,
I am just watching the market in camera bodies at the moment. Something that strikes me is that Nikon seem to have played all their cards and left Canon in a position of being able to watch the market from a major R&D perspective.
I think it has put Canon in a very strong position as they are likely not to put anything on the market unless it beats the latest Nikon lineup hands down.
(Just musing)
Ian
I think Canon is probably very close to announcing a 5D replacement, and the length of time it takes to design and test modern DSLRs would make it very unlikely that Canon would have had time to 'react' to the D700.
I just finished a 2-way comparison test of the D700 and EOS 5D, and I was really impressed at how good the 5D's sensor is - still - when viewed alongside the D700's. Both cameras produce excellent results at low ISO speeds that are essentially indistinguishable. Obviously the D700 is miles away when it comes to ultra-high ISO performance, but the 5D is still pretty damned good.
Where it shows its age is the LCD screen (which is awful in comparison) the thinner feature set, no built-in flash, etc., etc., et.c, Oh, and the sensor attracts dust like a magnet.
The replacement for the 5D (and no, I don't have any inside information) will inevitably address these shortcomings, and based on Canon's past form I imagine it will feature a resolution closer to that of the EOS 1Ds Mark III.
Edited by barney britton (15/08/2008 15:05)
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7668
Loc: Doon the glen
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Quote:
I just finished a 2-way comparison test....
Jings! I was just getting used to them being called camera duels too
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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