taxor
Reged: 09/07/2004
Posts: 571
Loc: Lancaster, UK
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The simplest way to load 120 films is to locate a piece of waste 120 film (about 4" long) in the groove below the ball-bearings. This stops your film falling into the spiral as it always used to do with me. Once the film has 'taken' onto the reel, carefully slide out the waste bit from below. Cutting the corners from your film is, as everyone has said, essential.
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"I wanna hold your gland". Lemming & McCartney
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
The simplest way to load 120 films is to locate a piece of waste 120 film (about 4" long) in the groove below the ball-bearings. This stops your film falling into the spiral as it always used to do with me. Once the film has 'taken' onto the reel, carefully slide out the waste bit from below. Cutting the corners from your film is, as everyone has said, essential.
Why make life more difficult than it has to be? I've never had any problems loading 120 films into Paterson spirals, provided they're dry. I've never found a need to chop corners off, or fiddle around with bits of waste film.
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huwevans
Old Hand
Reged: 05/08/2000
Posts: 15464
Loc: Dorset, UK
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I always had problems loading 120 onto dry Paterson spirals until I started cutting the corners off the film - they used to catch on the radial bits of the spiral. Also I found the curl in the film made it very difficult to get it properly located in the mouth of the spiral until I sorted that by cutting a piece of old printing paper to use as a guide.
If you've not had these problems that's great, but they (and the same basic solutions) crop up over and over again on forums, so lots of other people certainly have experienced them. Maybe some reels are just better than others?
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Huw Evans.
  
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Azzi
member
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 195
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Ok folks, thanks for your input - I tried again last night with some old film and did find it easier after snipping the corners off. I`ll try again in anger this weekend.
Thanks again,
Chris
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisnj2008/
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
I always had problems loading 120 onto dry Paterson spirals until I started cutting the corners off the
I have the same issue with 35mm, for that matter - I've developed (sorry!) the knack of cutting through the perforations to leave a rounded edge which works a treat.
Personally, I've never needed the feeder guide trick, but knowing of it, I've always had it in reserve just in case.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Maybe some reels are just better than others?
Possible ... but maybe it's technique ... I find it works best if a very slight outward pressure is applied when twisting the spiral to load the film, not inward pressure as may seem natural. Obviously you do not want to tug hard enough to risk pulling the spiral apart!
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zx9
old hand
Reged: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1041
Loc: London
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Now we have done the easy ones
Any tips on 220 and metal spirals 
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ZX9 (Keith)  
My Flickr Pictures
Edited by zx9 (12/06/2008 22:43)
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huwevans
Old Hand
Reged: 05/08/2000
Posts: 15464
Loc: Dorset, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe some reels are just better than others?
Possible ... but maybe it's technique ... I find it works best if a very slight outward pressure is applied when twisting the spiral to load the film, not inward pressure as may seem natural. Obviously you do not want to tug hard enough to risk pulling the spiral apart!
Well all it needs for a leading corner of the film to snag on a radial member is for the film to angle even slightly off line. And since by definition with these spirals the film is being pushed at one side, the force is always being applied off-centre - snagging is really only a natural consequence of the design. Probably the degree of chamfering on the radial members is going to be critical, and that's why I could easily believe that some reels might be better than others. I have and use Paterson reels dating from the 70s right up to the present decade, and I don't think it would be at all surprising if the precise detail design had changed over that time period.
Perhaps pulling the spiral halves apart slightly might tend to reduce the chances of snagging, but clearly that's going beyond the intended operating procedure for the spirals. If it works for you that's great. But the thing you really must avoid is an unrecoverable snag - the design of these spirals prevents the film being pulled backwards to free a snagged film, and the only way of recovering the situation may be to actually separate the spiral, which can only be done by twisting the reel halves beyond the point where the film is binding, and that means buckling and very likely tearing the film. A couple of snips with a pair of scissors takes only a few seconds and eliminates even the possibility of snagging, so it's hardly over-complicating matters - just a simple sensible precaution that works 100% of the time.
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Huw Evans.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Any tips on 220 and metal spirals
I never got on with metal spirals, and I've never used 220. I've only ever physically seen it on sale once, and that was a week or so after I said I had never seen it at all...
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Benchmark
Is it safe?
Reged: 12/07/2005
Posts: 3034
Loc: Sedgefield, Co Durham
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Quote:
Quote:
The simplest way to load 120 films is to locate a piece of waste 120 film (about 4" long) in the groove below the ball-bearings. This stops your film falling into the spiral as it always used to do with me. Once the film has 'taken' onto the reel, carefully slide out the waste bit from below. Cutting the corners from your film is, as everyone has said, essential.
Why make life more difficult than it has to be? I've never had any problems loading 120 films into Paterson spirals, provided they're dry. I've never found a need to chop corners off, or fiddle around with bits of waste film.
I would agree that the reels must be completely dry. Even working in a changing bag on a warm day can create enough moisture to make things sticky.
However, the greatest problem I have ever experienced was when the little stainless steel balls got stuck in place. These must be loose and free before loading the film.
I have used 220 film (old Velvia 50) on odd occasions. It a bit more difficult to load than 120 as it is twice as long, but you don't have the hassle of the paper backing.
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Nigel CRIPN and Bar
Beware of the Dark Slide
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skellum
member
Reged: 25/02/2007
Posts: 109
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Paterson are ubiquitous and beloved by many of us. I have umpteen of their tanks and reels. When it comes to easy loading of 120 film, though, I much prefer a Jobo tank. It NEVER snags. Unfortunately mine only holds one roll, so if I need to process a lot of film I use a Paterson multitank. Much more exciting and unpredictable. Make sure they're dry, and occasionaly split the reel and run a pencil round the groove of the spiral. The graphite make them just a little slippier to load.
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Garry McNamara
Snr Tutor/Bongo Banjo
Reged: 16/08/2006
Posts: 2079
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I found one of these best...
It's a called a dip'n'dunk and it's about as easy as hanging out your socks - you need a bit of room and about £40k but hey, your worth it.
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taxor
Reged: 09/07/2004
Posts: 571
Loc: Lancaster, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
The simplest way to load 120 films is to locate a piece of waste 120 film (about 4" long) in the groove below the ball-bearings. This stops your film falling into the spiral as it always used to do with me. Once the film has 'taken' onto the reel, carefully slide out the waste bit from below. Cutting the corners from your film is, as everyone has said, essential.
Why make life more difficult than it has to be? I've never had any problems loading 120 films into Paterson spirals, provided they're dry. I've never found a need to chop corners off, or fiddle around with bits of waste film.
Well I tried, believe me, I did try loading 120 films without snipping off the corners, with perfectly dry reels and without putting a bit of film underneath and pretty much always with the same result: scratched film, kink marks etc. But, if you can do it without all this, good for you. 
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"I wanna hold your gland". Lemming & McCartney
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zx9
old hand
Reged: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1041
Loc: London
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Quote:
I found one of these best...
It's a called a dip'n'dunk and it's about as easy as hanging out your socks - you need a bit of room and about £40k but hey, your worth it.
I don't think it would fit up the stairs of my converted loft 'darkroom'. 20+ years ago we had a Kodak Versamat at collage, it was renamed the Kodak Scratchamat. I think they had a couple of Dip and Dunks, E6 and C41. Once a week they would do an E4 run which may have been some poor sop with a cadge of metal spirals in deep tanks 
Given the Scratchamat or metal spirals in an ID11 deep tank darkroom, if you had anything important to do it was time fight with the sheet film users for one of the deep tank rooms.
Garry I do hope they still do this sort of thing at collage.
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ZX9 (Keith)
My Flickr Pictures
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 4140
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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Quote:
Quote:
I found one of these best...
It's a called a dip'n'dunk and it's about as easy as hanging out your socks - you need a bit of room and about £40k but hey, your worth it.
I don't think it would fit up the stairs of my converted loft 'darkroom'. 20+ years ago we had a Kodak Versamat at collage, it was renamed the Kodak Scratchamat. I think they had a couple of Dip and Dunks, E6 and C41. Once a week they would do an E4 run which may have been some poor sop with a cadge of metal spirals in deep tanks
Given the Scratchamat or metal spirals in an ID11 deep tank darkroom, if you had anything important to do it was time fight with the sheet film users for one of the deep tank rooms.
Garry I do hope they still do this sort of thing at collage.
I spent many a happy hour watching film (70mm, 5inch and 9.5" wide x 500ft)come of the Versamat. Finding the source of scratching was an absolute pain, but once it was scratch free we could process 1,000`s of feet of film and paper before getting another scratch.
Every month thogh we used to strip it right down to the chassis and give evrything a good clean and replace anything that needed to be.
Ah.............the days of working for HM Forces
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She (Avro Vulcan XH558)Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
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Terrywoodenpic
A whiff of silicon...
Reged: 21/01/2006
Posts: 370
Loc: Saddleworth UK
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I have always used centre loading metal ones, some times in five gallon tanks and sometimes in triple tanks.
They are easily the fastest to load and never suffer from sticking problems.
The secret is keeping a smooth curve across the width of the film with your right hand by squeezing the edges of the film. At the same time rotating the film on to the spiral, by twisting your wrists away from each other.
Badly done you can get kinks in the film.
The best way to practice is to sit in a chair watching television. and Just go to it.
If you kink the film start again. The more kinks you get in it the easier it will kink next time. Just keep on using the same film.
As you get more skill you will not even kink a previously badly kinked film. By the end of an evening you will be an expert....
For those who don't know, a kink formed when loading any type of spiral will show as a black fine half moon shape when processed.
It is well worth learning to load a metal spiral.
they are far easier and quicker to load.
They never ever stick.
They are far easier to clean.
They never cross contaminate.
They are virtually unbreakable.
slight dampness is not a problem.
They are far easier to dry. heat won't hurt them.
agitation marks become a thing of the past.
Never a need to snip corners as the film is wound on not pushed in.
In my estimation they are superior in every way.
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63 happy photo years from amateur to professional and back to amateur
Edited by Terrywoodenpic (15/06/2008 12:03)
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glynjones
journeyman
Reged: 03/07/2005
Posts: 50
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I use a nova easyloader for 35mm and 120 - its a wooden contraption that holds the film and the spiral and keeps everything perfectly lined up
It acts like an extra hand and makes life a lot easier
For 35mm I pull the film out of the canister using a retriever, trim the edge and then load onto the spiral, putting the spiral onto the easyloader, in the light. Only pull out the bare minimum to get you started
Then put the whole thing in the dark, pull out more film so that you can then load the canister onto the easyloader - from there its dead easy
120 is a little trickier, but still much easier than without
I've also got a calumet changing room to replace my changing bag - basically a collapsible tent - more room and the top isn't resting on your hands like a changing bag does
Glyn
PS - you can get the easyloaders from firstcall
Edited by glynjones (23/07/2008 15:50)
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