Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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I might be wrong, but it seems very little has been said in magazines, reviews or forums about the rather clever, seamless AF + manual focus mode on E series Oly cameras. Being able to auto focus and then finish the focussing manually without having to switch any buttons, appears to be a unique innovation in Olympus cameras which perhaps deserves a little more note. Reviews only usually mention it in passing, such that unless you already own an Olympus, you would never get a clear impression of how it works.
In action, in a sticky focussing situation, it can save valuable seconds in bagging a shot, without having to fumble around for a manual focus button. Shouldn't this be made better known?
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Rob
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Being able to auto focus and then finish the focussing manually without having to switch any buttons, appears to be a unique innovation in Olympus cameras
Errr ... Canon EF lenses with USM (most of them these days) can do this too, and the first examples predate the Olympus E system by several years.
I agree absolutely that this feature is a major convenience.
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Bone_Idle
Mr Maybe
Reged: 28/07/2006
Posts: 1392
Loc: Bradford
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The main issue with most reviews I see, is the fact that a lot of reviews claim you have to hunt around in the menu to change the focus mode. In reality most e-system a direct access button and is only a couple of presses to select the mose you require.
Infact, you don't have to delve into the menues to change any of the functionality of the e-system cameras (as is claimed by many reviewers) as you just select the value on the read LCD and then use the wheel to change it.
And yes, since I got my 70-300mm at the weekend, I have found the AF/M mode excellent.
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Thanks
Nick
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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Do some Sigma lenses do it too? The HSM ones???
It is quite common and nothing new to me either but can't say I've used it that often.
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Yup, it's on Sigma's HSM motors, too. For many years, it was only available on the EOS system, and then only with those lenses with "proper" USMs, not the ring-type (the only ring type USM lens with it is the 50mm f1.4). Do a search in any Canon forum that's been running for any length of time and you'll find loads of posts relating to "FTM", or Full Time Manual focus. It IS sometimes useful, but it's certainly not critical to my photography, and I would put it in the "nice to have" bracket, personally. It's one of those innovations that took a long time to spread because it depends really on having the AF motors in the lenses, which was not the direction taken by most manufacturers at first, following the enormous success of Minolta's 7000 with the cheaper in-body AF motor.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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El Sid
Going potty
Reged: 14/04/2003
Posts: 9470
Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
For many years, it was only available on the EOS system, and then only with those lenses with "proper" USMs, not the ring-type (the only ring type USM lens with it is the 50mm f1.4).
As I understand it it's the ring type USM lenses that have full time manual focus while the micro-USM types don't. The specs for the 35-135mm appear to confirm this...
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN 
ElSid Gallery
A camera in the hand is more fun than one in the cupboard........
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Oh blast - that's what I meant to write, sorry. Yes, the ring-type do, the micros don't - except for the 50mm f1.4.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Benchmark
Is it safe?
Reged: 12/07/2005
Posts: 3034
Loc: Sedgefield, Co Durham
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I use it all the time.
I actually prefer the feel of the older Olympus 'focus by wire' system rather than the newer mechanical system, which I find rather 'sticky'.
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Nigel CRIPN and Bar
Beware of the Dark Slide
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Being able to auto focus and then finish the focussing manually without having to switch any buttons, appears to be a unique innovation in Olympus cameras
Errr ... Canon EF lenses with USM (most of them these days) can do this too, and the first examples predate the Olympus E system by several years.
I agree absolutely that this feature is a major convenience.
Well, I did say "unless I'm wrong" and it appears I was about it being an Oly innovation - so apologies to Canon there. It's not talked about much and I think it's an excellent feature, particularly with the longer zooms. Less than half of the Canon zooms currently listed have this feature however whereas all of the Oly lenses have it, so a little credit for Oly-Zuiko there at least. 
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Rob
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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FWIW there are a few Canon lenses that don't even have focus motors in them ...the TS-E lenses are manual focus only IIRC.
Then there's the (wonderful IMO) MP-E which doesn't really have manual focus either...you just move the whole camera and lens to focus.
Fair enough my 24/2.8 doesn't do the auto/manual focus thing but I'm struggling to think of a time I've used the AF on that lens so it doesn't bother me in the slightest  It's mostly the "budget" Canon lenses that have cheaper AF motors that don't have full time manual focus available.
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
...It's mostly the "budget" Canon lenses that have cheaper AF motors that don't have full time manual focus available.
FWIW, the following currently listed Canon zoom lenses don't have AF + manual, or FT-M...
EFS 18-55 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 II
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 V USM
EF 28-90 f4.0-5.6 II
EF 28-105 f4-5.6 USM
EF 28-105 f4-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6 USM
EF 28-300 f3.5-5.6 L IS USM
EF 35-80 f4-5.6 III
EF 55-200 f4.5-5.6 II USM
EF-S 55-200 f4-5.6 IS
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III
EF 70-300 f4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III USM
EF 75-300 f4-5.6 IS USM
EF 80-200 f4.5-5.6 II
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6 USM
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6
...whereas all the Oly-Zuikos do.
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Rob
Edited by Photocracy (07/06/2008 01:08)
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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You forgot all the prime lenses that don't have it 
....the 24/2.8 and the 35/2 for starters but there are several more. There are loads of Canon lenses!
Anyway, am off out to play with my magnifying macro lens and macro twin flash that lets me switch the focus lamps on without taking my hands away from the main controls
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
...Anyway, am off out to play with my magnifying macro lens and macro twin flash that lets me switch the focus lamps on without taking my hands away from the main controls
You mean you have to press a button? What - no telepathy?
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Rob
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Repton
Mr Test Shot
Reged: 05/07/2005
Posts: 1776
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or pedal?
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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I know, pressing buttons is so last century. Still, using bellows was the century before that so I guess it's not that bad 
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
...It's mostly the "budget" Canon lenses that have cheaper AF motors that don't have full time manual focus available.
FWIW, the following currently listed Canon zoom lenses don't have AF + manual, or FT-M...
EFS 18-55 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 II
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 V USM
EF 28-90 f4.0-5.6 II
EF 28-105 f4-5.6 USM
EF 28-105 f4-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6 USM
EF 28-300 f3.5-5.6 L IS USM
EF 35-80 f4-5.6 III
EF 55-200 f4.5-5.6 II USM
EF-S 55-200 f4-5.6 IS
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III
EF 70-300 f4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III USM
EF 75-300 f4-5.6 IS USM
EF 80-200 f4.5-5.6 II
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6 USM
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6
...whereas all the Oly-Zuikos do.
FTR, there are at least two lenses on that list that DO have FTM - the only two that aren't budget lenses.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...It's mostly the "budget" Canon lenses that have cheaper AF motors that don't have full time manual focus available.
FWIW, the following currently listed Canon zoom lenses don't have AF + manual, or FT-M...
EFS 18-55 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 II
EF 28-80 f3.5-5.6 V USM
EF 28-90 f4.0-5.6 II
EF 28-105 f4-5.6 USM
EF 28-105 f4-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6
EF 28-200 f3.5-5.6 USM
EF 28-300 f3.5-5.6 L IS USM
EF 35-80 f4-5.6 III
EF 55-200 f4.5-5.6 II USM
EF-S 55-200 f4-5.6 IS
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III
EF 70-300 f4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
EF 70-300 f4-5.6 III USM
EF 75-300 f4-5.6 IS USM
EF 80-200 f4.5-5.6 II
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6 USM
EF 90-300 f4.5-5.6
...whereas all the Oly-Zuikos do.
FTR, there are at least two lenses on that list that DO have FTM - the only two that aren't budget lenses.
According to Canon's website, none in the list have FTM, except the two I assume you refer to as not being budget lenses - the EF 28-300 f3.5-5.6 L IS USM, and the EF 70-300 f4.5-5.6 DO IS USM which have suggested retail prices of £2050 and £1050 respectively. Canon's website lists the FTM in a different place for these and I missed it - sorry. However, the rest, budget or not...
Edited by Photocracy (07/06/2008 17:36)
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
the rest, budget or not...
There isn't a "not". The rest ARE budget lenses - it's an indication of just how enormous Canon's range is. Quite why it has to be so big might well be an interesting question!
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
the rest, budget or not...
There isn't a "not". The rest ARE budget lenses - it's an indication of just how enormous Canon's range is. Quite why it has to be so big might well be an interesting question!
There is a not. The "not" is that all of the Canon 'budget' lenses do not have full time manual (FT-M, or AF + manual) whereas all of the Oly E-series Zuiko lenses do, whether they be standard, pro, or top pro. So Oly/Zuiko deserve some credit there, don't they? It's going to be a flipping hard won piece of credit if I ever get there!
Edited by Photocracy (07/06/2008 22:57)
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
You forgot all the prime lenses that don't have it ...
Good point Add to that list:
EF 15mm f2.8 fisheye (SRP £590) - 'budget'?
EF 24mm f2.8 (SRP £400) - 'budget'?
EF 28mm f2.8 (SRP £170)
EF 35mm f2.0 (SRP £236)
EF 50mm f1.8 (SRP £90)
EF 135mm f2.8 SF (SRP £360) - budget?
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Rob
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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All of these (except the ultra-budget 50mm f1.8) actually predate USM motors. All except the fisheye are most certainly budget primes.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
All of these (except the ultra-budget 50mm f1.8) actually predate USM motors. All except the fisheye are most certainly budget primes.
All of these are current Canon offerings as of June 2008. Eight of them are listed as USM lenses. They include many popular lenses which amateurs are likely to buy, including me when I had Canon gear.
Be daring, can I not tease just the slightest begrudging acknowledgement of Oly credit out of you? You will survive, honest!
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Rob
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
All of these (except the ultra-budget 50mm f1.8) actually predate USM motors. All except the fisheye are most certainly budget primes.
All of these are current Canon offerings as of June 2008. Eight of them are listed as USM lenses. They include many popular lenses which amateurs are likely to buy, including me when I had Canon gear.
Be daring, can I not tease just the slightest begrudging acknowledgement of Oly credit out of you? You will survive, honest!
OK, well done Olympus for copying Canon after a decade or so. There, that any better?
If you bothered to read back in this forum, you would see that I've been crediting Olympus for the good things they've done for years - unlike some, I'm no fanboy, I'm simply pointing out facts - sorry if that's not what you're interested in.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
All of these (except the ultra-budget 50mm f1.8) actually predate USM motors. All except the fisheye are most certainly budget primes.
All of these are current Canon offerings as of June 2008. Eight of them are listed as USM lenses. They include many popular lenses which amateurs are likely to buy, including me when I had Canon gear.
Be daring, can I not tease just the slightest begrudging acknowledgement of Oly credit out of you? You will survive, honest!
OK, well done Olympus for copying Canon after a decade or so. There, that any better?
If you bothered to read back in this forum, you would see that I've been crediting Olympus for the good things they've done for years - unlike some, I'm no fanboy, I'm simply pointing out facts - sorry if that's not what you're interested in.
Don't all manufacturer's copy each others' good ideas - and why not? It would be madness not to.
The facts have emerged variously on this thread as the discussion progressed. All contributing have brought some information to the discussion. Where I was wrong, I acknowledged it openly. I don't think I could be accused of not being interested in facts. I took the trouble to do my homework and to establish the facts from Canon's website. So yes, I like facts. As for being a fanboy, I suppose that's the price I've paid for making this point.
I do, nonetheless, appreciate the discussion so thank you.
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Rob
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Don't all manufacturer's copy each others' good ideas - and why not? It would be madness not to.
If they can find a way round any patents applying.... Patent offices have got terribly lax these days, you could probably patent the letter "e" in the USA if you wrapped the concept up in enough pseudotechnical language, so what usually happens is that the "following" manufacturers buy an example or two, pull it to bits then engineer some different mechanism which "appears" to do the same thing.
If the same effort and expertise was put into being genuinely creative, perhaps we'd get somewhere.
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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Fingers crossed Oly copy Canon's vast choice in lenses eventually too
I'll put a word in and see if I can get Oly a Blue Peter badge for their efforts in copying Canon Won't bother sending Canon one for their efforts in copying the dust reduction gizmo tho  
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... Pics.
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Photocracy
The Great Pretender
Reged: 18/11/2006
Posts: 643
Loc: Sunny South Coast
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Quote:
...unlike some, I'm no fanboy...
In the interests of gender neutrality, shouldn't that be fanperson?
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Rob
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
...unlike some, I'm no fanboy...
In the interests of gender neutrality, shouldn't that be fanperson?
Possibly so!
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Fingers crossed Oly copy Canon's vast choice in lenses eventually too
OK, so what's missing? I mean that you might miss, not lenses that are still in the catalogue though they're obsoleted by later models that are cheaper/more compact/more flexible, or are so expensive that few people can afford them. The only ones I can think of offhand are equivalents for the MP-E and the TS lenses, which are definitely specialist items.
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
Quote:
...unlike some, I'm no fanboy...
In the interests of gender neutrality, shouldn't that be fanperson?
Speciesist. Fanbeing, please.
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37886
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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I think the only things really missing for me are wideangle primes, and they're hardly critical - in terms of what I really need from a system, it's all covered - diagonal fisheye, wideangle zoom, standard zoom and tele zoom of decent quality, fast standard (from Leica, perhaps) and a macro or two.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
Posts: 7692
Loc: Doon the glen
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