Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Hi all,
Quick question, with the landscape shot showing bias towards shadow and light areas, are we able to submit a print in black and white, or is it best to stick with colour, only Ive found that when the image is turned to black and white it shows much better detail in clouds etc.
Any advice would be helpful.
Many Thanks,
Tina 
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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Hi Tina, the way I read the exercise it is not necessarily about rendering detail in the finished print but in understandng the tonal variations in a scene and most importantly the total range of stops over which your camera's sensor cab usefully record information.
I regularly convert pictures to mono (quite often IMO they look better that way) but I haven't for this module. I have simply tried to take an interesting picture (of Derwent Water) that enables me to demonstrate I've understood the exercise. I have one version in which the foreground is underexposed whilst the sky is correctly exposed. The other (of the same scene) has a correctly exposed foreground but overexposed sky. I don't like either version personally and if I was presenting the scene as a finished print I would definitely be looking at adjusting them in PS! Fingers crossed I've understood the exercise correctly. Shall know soon enough as I'm ready to submit module 2 but am waiting for module 1 to come back first.
Hope this helps?  or
Good Luck
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Dave
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Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Hi Fatherpie,
Thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying and I suppose it doesnt really matter in this case, however I will think about re-taking my images as I am also not happy with either of them! Although the underexposed sky image shows more detail in the foreground, the overall image appears quite dark and Im not sure I have the whole technique figured out yet! Maybe I need to just find a more interesting subject to photograph, any ideas? At the moment its just grass and sky!
Thanks,
Tina
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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This is what I have chosen.
There were almost 3 stops difference between the reeds in the foreground and the sky. This version is a blend of the two exposures I took and sadly it is they that will be submitted for the module not this version!
Good luck.
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Dave
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Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Well that images certainly puts mine to shame!! Will definately think about re-taking it now! Its been a bit difficult recently though trying to take photos as we have been having rubbish weather here, and not many clouds!
Ah well, I'll see what I can come up with! Thanks for the help...watch this space!
Tina 
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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Quote:
Ah well, I'll see what I can come up with! Thanks for the help...watch this space!
Look forward to seeing what you come up with - good luck!
ps - have you had Mod 1 back yet?
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Dave
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hil26
member
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 104
Loc: North Wales
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That's how I understand it.
Its not about getting an image that is well composed etc, but understanding the task.
Nice compopsite though
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always in search of that magic moment
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saffron
newbie
Reged: 30/11/2007
Posts: 31
Loc: Saffron Walden
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Hello Dave and Tina,
If it is any help I took the same scene twice but with one exposure reading from the shadows and one from the highlights (both taken as spot readings). This gave two pics, one of which was underexposed and the other the opposite. This helps to illustrate which is best for recovering detail- an underexposed image or one that is overexposed and helps you being able to answer Question 4.
Hope this helps,
Peter
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Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Thank you very much!!
Yea I have had my module 1 back for a few weeks now (I know Im so lazy!!) Did ok I think, some tips were given and hopefull I can improve on them for next time!
Tina
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Hi Peter,
Thanks very much, that certainly puts my mind at ease. I had better get cracking then! Thanks for all the advice everyone.
Tina
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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Heart_Shaped_Bruises
newbie
Reged: 16/02/2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Coventry, West Midlands, UK
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Finally got my module 2 in the post today! GET IN!
Bring on Module 3
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~I Noticed You...You Stood Out Like A Sore Thumb...The Most Beautiful Sore Thumb I'd Ever Seen~
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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Quote:
Finally got my module 2 in the post today! GET IN!
Bring on Module 3
I have 2 and 3 ready and waiting - just haven't seen mod 1 back yet. If not here tomorrow I'll email Elliot
Good Luck!
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Dave
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tjm
newbie
Reged: 15/12/2007
Posts: 28
Loc: Southampton. UK
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Hi Dave
forget that pm i see you are doing very well.
The thing i am having trouble with is, do we take the landscape shot as with the Grey card, or can we adjust the settings to get the desired result?.
Got some time off and it looks like rain
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Diplomacy: Knowing how to say "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.
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Garry McNamara
Snr Tutor/Bongo Banjo
Reged: 16/08/2006
Posts: 2079
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If you are getting good results with the grey card I would use it - the idea is to get a good 'corect' or compromise exposure and then take two more to exploit the range you have discovered your sensor has in part A to bias exposure firstly towards highlights and then shadows.
Garry
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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Quote:
- the idea is to get a good 'corect' or compromise exposure and then take two more ...
Garry
Garry, whilst clearly not intentional you've confused me slightly here (not difficult says SWMBO).
The way I read Part 2 of the question we are to submit two images - one with the exposure biased to the highlights and one to the shadows. Your reply above suggests a third, "correctly" exposed image.
Could you clarify please as I'm about to submit module 2 but will need to go back and reshoot part 2 if I've misunderstood.
Cheers
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Dave
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hil26
member
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 104
Loc: North Wales
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This is strange, as I queried the post over an hour ago, but my post is not showing !! - But essentally said exactly the same thing.
regards
Dave (yup - another Dave)
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always in search of that magic moment
Please read the forum guidelines RE reciprocal links before adding URLs here. Thank you. Admin.
Edited by hil26 (25/05/2008 09:20)
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Garry McNamara
Snr Tutor/Bongo Banjo
Reged: 16/08/2006
Posts: 2079
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Getting an exposure is not quite the same as taking a picture but yes it is a bit ambiguous, I didn't have a course handbook to hand when I posted. Two pictures are required but you would need to establish a correct exposure first to take one either side of that that exploits the dynamic range.
Personally I would take a 'correct' picture while I was there anyway as it will help you to study the effects of taking the other two - it's a single frame so not a lot of effort or cost. You should be taking a lot more pictures than you submit - possibly to refer to in your assessment and certainly to keep as part of your own course notes, not to be submitted, that will build into your very own reference work.
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FatherPie
journeyman
Reged: 18/04/2008
Posts: 91
Loc: West Yorkshire
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Thanks for the clarification Garry. As you suggest I have taken considerably more than I need (must be one of the major benefits of digital - I am much more frugal with film). I was however slightly confused by the submission requirements - but no longer!
Cheers
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Dave
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hil26
member
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 104
Loc: North Wales
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thanks for the clarification - think I have just about finished the module now.
Now my question on Module 3......but not here
regards
Dave
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always in search of that magic moment
Please read the forum guidelines RE reciprocal links before adding URLs here. Thank you. Admin.
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4BIKER2
enthusiast
Reged: 01/02/2008
Posts: 364
Loc: West Midlands
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Got module 2 in the post today I seem to have gone about it a different way, I've taken two pictures only one stop apart of a contrasty image, one is showing slightly burnt out highlights and the other is showing clipping in the shadow areas, but both pictures would be acceptable with a little tweak. Hope I'm not to for off the mark.
Here's an in between picture.
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Nigel
My Flickr
The learning curve is so steep I keep falling off.
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tjm
newbie
Reged: 15/12/2007
Posts: 28
Loc: Southampton. UK
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Well thats really gone and done it now, I also have two images i was going to post Mod 2 tomorrow but I think i will wait for a reply.
I have taken 2 images at the far end of the range of my camera,(it does say "maximum detail")after finding out what my camera is capable of,so my shadow detail image shows a burnt out sky,and my highlight shows good sky image but not much in the way of foreground.
I am thinking that I could be doing this again, is this is what is required or have I got it wrong.
If I am being stupid.....I'll get my coat 
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Diplomacy: Knowing how to say "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.
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hil26
member
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 104
Loc: North Wales
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Quote:
I have taken 2 images at the far end of the range of my camera,(it does say "maximum detail")after finding out what my camera is capable of,so my shadow detail image shows a burnt out sky,and my highlight shows good sky image but not much in the way of foreground.
That's how I read it as well
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always in search of that magic moment
Please read the forum guidelines RE reciprocal links before adding URLs here. Thank you. Admin.
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tjm
newbie
Reged: 15/12/2007
Posts: 28
Loc: Southampton. UK
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Garry
could i have some direction on this please, not sure if what i have done is the right thing, does the image need to be a straight forward shot with exposure biased towards the highlight/shadow, or do we need to achieve maximum detail in both images?.
HELP!!
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Diplomacy: Knowing how to say "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.
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Garry McNamara
Snr Tutor/Bongo Banjo
Reged: 16/08/2006
Posts: 2079
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Ok analogy time then!
Imagine the tones in your subject are a train - 8 carriages long and you have a platform (that's your sensor) that can accommodate 12 carriages. Well you have a choice then as to where on the platform you pull the train up but wherever you stop all the passengers can get off the train - in other words all the range of tones can be recorded by the sensor.
Reverse that scenario, where the platform is shorter than the train, and some passengers are going to find it tricky to get off the train - in other words not all your tones can be recorded.
So faced with the first scene you can record all tones at each of the two exposures but there will be a bias towards highlight or shadow. In the second there will be a sacrifice at one or other end.
And that's why it isn't possible to give an answer until you find your scene and photograph it. It's a dilemma photographers have faced since the beginning of photographic time and one they've all learned to deal with and this exercise sets you on the way.
Hope that sort of helps!
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hil26
member
Reged: 07/11/2007
Posts: 104
Loc: North Wales
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You would make a great MP, Garry.
regards
David
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always in search of that magic moment
Please read the forum guidelines RE reciprocal links before adding URLs here. Thank you. Admin.
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Garry McNamara
Snr Tutor/Bongo Banjo
Reged: 16/08/2006
Posts: 2079
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The expenses are tempting but you have to wear a tie.
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tjm
newbie
Reged: 15/12/2007
Posts: 28
Loc: Southampton. UK
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Thanks for the help Garry, i'm off out now to put it into practice.
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Diplomacy: Knowing how to say "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.
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tjm
newbie
Reged: 15/12/2007
Posts: 28
Loc: Southampton. UK
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Mod 2 in the post  at last!!.
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Diplomacy: Knowing how to say "nice doggy" until you find a big stick.
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