NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6176
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
I have an A3 printer, I could take home the photos with NN then process them, put them both onto on page with the image split into two (left half D300, right half D3) and then print it out.
After that, scan in the printed page and post 600px squares from the scan on here.
Sounds like a plan Stan.
I only raised the crop factor because to compare detail on a like for like basis surely it should be the same size in the frame? Also, do AP enlarge the one file simply because it's simpler? I would ahve thought that having a subject the same size in both frames would prove a more accurate test, but to be honest, I usually glaze over when people start talking technically.
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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BrianT
Old Hand
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 5987
Loc: Leeds
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Did our posts cross Fen?
The trouble is no way can an image be assessed to any degree on a screen. Just get an image taken from each camera at the optimum settings then print them side by side. If you can see a difference then it shows that the printer can out perform one of the cameras. If it can't then either the D300 is as good as the D3 at optimum settings or that printers have fallen behind cameras. Either way it makes one think.
A bit early for a G&T methinks...Oh bugger it.
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Brian BSRIPN
Oh for the days when Elvis was king and everything else was a 50th @ F11.
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BrianT
Old Hand
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 5987
Loc: Leeds
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but to be honest, I usually glaze over when people start talking technically.
Ditto on that.
But I think the only important thing here is a technical thing. I would suggest that in the real world of A3 prints hanging on the wall nobody would be able to pick a winner.
But it doesn't stop me from thinking about when photographers took piccies with Leitz/ Zeiss/ Schneider etc lenses then enlarged them through a Photax bit of plastic.
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Brian BSRIPN
Oh for the days when Elvis was king and everything else was a 50th @ F11.
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6176
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
But it doesn't stop me from thinking about when photographers took piccies with Leitz/ Zeiss/ Schneider etc lenses then enlarged them through a Photax bit of plastic.
No, and it's an asute observation, except now I don't believe the vast majority of photographers put the best lenses first as the hunt for the 'best' body tends to lead them onwards, and even when they think they are buying the best lenses, it's only because it has an 'L' in the name or becaue it's an f/2.8 Nikkor, without considering whther that lens will actually be the best lens for them. As for the printing stage, I suspect that 99.99% of digital images taken by members of online forums across the world are never printed at all.
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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BrianT
Old Hand
Reged: 16/05/2001
Posts: 5987
Loc: Leeds
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Quote:
I suspect that 99.99% of digital images taken by members of online forums across the world are never printed at all
So that means we spend all that dosh to produce 0.01% worth printing piccies. Blimey at this rate in ten years time I might have to get the printer out.
Lenses NN? No people never buy the lenses they need, where's the fun in that, it's want. Nowadays it would seem that your average photographer wants everything in 35mm terms from 15mm-600mm. Funny that. In nearly one hundred years of production without resorting to Meccano Leitz produced in R/F cameras lenses from 21mm-135mm. Nobody seemed to mind. during that period their users produced perhaps more memorable photographs than all the rest put together, funny that. And with only one point of focus and eleven measly shutter speeds.........well I don't suppose they were serious photographers. 
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Brian BSRIPN
Oh for the days when Elvis was king and everything else was a 50th @ F11.
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NorthernNikon
Bulls Hitter
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 6176
Loc: Harrogate, North Yorks
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Quote:
well I don't suppose they were serious photographers.
Of course they weren't, have you seen the size of the noise in some of their shots? What's that? Grain? What's grain?
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www.BarneyAllen.com the new home of ComicShots.
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5992
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Brian,
Your D3 will use AdobeRGB colour space. Providing your printer can reproduce this and the r2400 and the Pro 3800 both can, you will not loose colour quality. The printers can also easily outperform the ppi to dpi resolution as the printer can handle 2880 dpi. There should be no problem at all.
If you take photos in sRGB, which has a much smaller colour gamut, then cheaper printers will reproduce this, but why would you do this and throw away the richer tonality??
You may need to check that your monitor can display AdobeRGB, or you will not see on screen what the camera has recorded or the printer can produce. This is probably the weakest link in the chain. My DELL 20" Ultrasharp will handle 90% of the AdobeRGB colours and my printer output is so close to my screen as to be nearly spot on.
In time, I will upgrade from the Pentax K10D to the K20D at 14.9Mp and I will still not exceed my printers capability at A3+
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David.
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Photos hosted by Flickr.
www.flickr.com/photos/monobod/
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
Edited by Monobod (23/05/2008 09:41)
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john_g
Pooh-bah Hoo-ha
Reged: 09/05/2007
Posts: 2536
Loc: Surrey
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Quote:
Brian,
Your D3 will use AdobeRGB colour space. Providing your printer can reproduce this and the r2400 and the Pro 3800 both can...
I've always assumed that no current printer suitable for home use can reproduce the entirety of the AdobeRGB colour space, much less reproduce it accurately. Have I got it wrong? I've had a quick look for any evidence to show this, one way or the other, and have come up with the following test of Epson's K3 inks which appears to show them not even capable or reproducing the sRGB colour space, let alone the full AdobeRGB one, but I'd love to be proved wrong!
http://dpnow.com/1867.html
On the other hand, I'd very easily believe that current printer technology does trounce traditional wet processes... although I've no proof of that either!
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John
Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope, it does not exist?
R.D.Laing The Politics Of Experience
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_gass
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Malcolm_Stewart
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 11/07/2005
Posts: 2583
Loc: Milton Keynes, UK
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dpnow seems to be more like dpnever...
I've tried several times.
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Malcolm Stewart
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4980
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
dpnow seems to be more like dpnever...
I've tried several times.
'Tis working fine for me 
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digitravel
I aint got nuffin
Reged: 03/12/2002
Posts: 1131
Loc: south coast uk
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While its true the K3s dont cover the whole sRGB they do show colour outside of that gamut as well which is why you should use the Adobe rgb colour space to achieve those colours.
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Seven..
...or maybe Eight
Reged: 03/02/2003
Posts: 5102
Loc: Havant, UK
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Just stumbled across this post and very interesting read. Has anyone found out if printers are keeping up with or overtaken the current high end cameras. It's an interesting thought, why buy the camera if the technology can't be matched on a print or perhaps it can, in which case can it get any better?
Anyhow did anyone ever get to the bottom of this?
Don't know if there are any mags out there that run articles on printers on a regular basis but I think with the current climate it would be good to hear as much about printing as the cameras themselves. After all tis the finished product that counts imo
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Tanya(BSRIPN)
CastVision
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Monobod
'Phantom' of the forum!
Reged: 03/04/2003
Posts: 5992
Loc: Just West of Norwich, Norfolk
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Quote:
Quote:
Brian,
Your D3 will use AdobeRGB colour space. Providing your printer can reproduce this and the r2400 and the Pro 3800 both can...
I've always assumed that no current printer suitable for home use can reproduce the entirety of the AdobeRGB colour space, much less reproduce it accurately. Have I got it wrong? I've had a quick look for any evidence to show this, one way or the other, and have come up with the following test of Epson's K3 inks which appears to show them not even capable or reproducing the sRGB colour space, let alone the full AdobeRGB one, but I'd love to be proved wrong!
http://dpnow.com/1867.html
On the other hand, I'd very easily believe that current printer technology does trounce traditional wet processes... although I've no proof of that either!
John, I really think that you are missing the point of these tests. They are only taken at 3 levels, not over the entire brighness range. I am sure that they are also limited by being printed with a sRGB colour setting in the driver.
You need to add all of these colour gamut results as an overlay to get the total picture, then add in the extended brightness ranges below and above the levels tested. You can see thet the colours extend beyond the sRGB in the blues and cyans, even with this limited test.
I have a colour monitor that displays 90% of the AdobeRGB colour space and my prints from the Pro3800, when set to AdobeRGB are a match to the screen. If I load two versions of the same image side by side, one in sRGB and the other in AdobeRGB, I can clearly see the difference. This clearly indicates to me that the printed output is better than suggested by these limited test results.
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David.
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Photos hosted by Flickr.
www.flickr.com/photos/monobod/
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I see the world thro' a viewfinder, but the world watches me via CCTV!
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