willie45
old hand
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 752
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I am so disappointed.
I suggest you stop selling these at £3 a go. They are a total disgrace. I have never been so disappointed with anything associated with Amateur Photographer. In my opinion they are poor and uninformative in the extreme. There is absolutely no way at all they could be described as value for money. Please stop treating people in this way
A very.. very... very... unhappy
Willie
I have asked for a refund and await a response
Edited by willie45 (26/02/2008 23:06)
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LargeFormat
old hand
Reged: 24/10/2006
Posts: 1166
Loc: Buckinghamshire and Cumbria
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Why? What's wrong with it? 
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TheFatControlleR
L'éminence Grise, Devil's Advocate & AP Fanboy!
Reged: 24/04/2001
Posts: 11561
Loc: Not here, it's rubbish...
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I have to say the only 'association' WDC has with AP is the same publisher and a shared resource in this forum, beyond that they are totally independent entities (I know folk involved with the titles who baulk at any suggestion that they are even 'sister' magazines  ).
As for the review, I would have thought a few minutes in WHS (other newsagents are available) would give one an indication of what one was paying for. However, value for money is subjective, and not having seen a reproduced review i couldn't possibly comment. 
Of course, as a consumer, you are entitled to do as you wish in respect to your disappointment.
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TheFatControlleR
And so, my fellow Benchists: ask not what your bench can do for you - ask what you can do for your bench... Ben Chism
Live fat, die young, and leave a self-basting corpse...
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willie45
old hand
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 752
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Well at the time I was a bit fed up to say the least.
While the AP is fairly detailed with a good coverage of major points and performance backed up with relevant facts and observations. The WDC has none of these features. Definitely poor value by comparison.
I realise these two magazines are different but they are from the same stable and the fact that both reviews are available from the same page of the site does seem to link them together. To my mind, poor value on one detracts from the other's reputation.
At any rate I thought it worth feeding back my dissatisfaction through the relevant channels which I have done.
I certainly won't be buying reviews from WDC again and personally, find it a shame that the arrangement on this site is as it is.
Willie
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TheFatControlleR
L'éminence Grise, Devil's Advocate & AP Fanboy!
Reged: 24/04/2001
Posts: 11561
Loc: Not here, it's rubbish...
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Quote:
At any rate I thought it worth feeding back my dissatisfaction through the relevant channels which I have done.
Absolutely Willie, and I'm sure your feedback will be appreciated. With FOCUS coming to a close today I suspect they'll be playing catch up in the office and may not respond immediately.
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TheFatControlleR
And so, my fellow Benchists: ask not what your bench can do for you - ask what you can do for your bench... Ben Chism
Live fat, die young, and leave a self-basting corpse...
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MrBlueSky
'elo, 'elo
Reged: 30/01/2008
Posts: 87
Loc: South West
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I must admit that I don't buy it all the time but I do find it very informative.
Whenever friends ask me to suggest a camera for their families, I buy the mag to find out about the latest and greatest 
Not quite sure what you're expecting
Keep up the good work chaps! 
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Bob
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willie45
old hand
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 752
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I am not arguing about whether the magazine is of value when sold in the shops. I am making the point that the "review" as sold on its own is not, IMHO, worth £3.
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Matt Golowczynski
WDC Technical Writer
Reged: 07/08/2007
Posts: 149
Loc: London
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Hi Willie,
I'm sorry that you didn't find one of our reviews to be good value for money. Reviews are generally cut down to fit the space that we can give them, and so it goes without saying that some will be shorter and less detailed than others. May I ask which review was it that you bought? Depending on what this was, we may be able to give you more information from the original copy.
Matt
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MrBlueSky
'elo, 'elo
Reged: 30/01/2008
Posts: 87
Loc: South West
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Ah!
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Bob
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Gordon_McGeachie
Joke Historian
Reged: 19/01/2007
Posts: 4091
Loc: East Yorkshire,
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But what good is a `shortened` review.?
Surely the whole review should be put into the magazine, as IMHO the edited version may missout on something that may have influenced a person to buy the item reviewed.
If that makes sense.......
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She (Avro Vulcan XH558)Took To The Sky Like A Lovesick Angel.
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Matt Golowczynski
WDC Technical Writer
Reged: 07/08/2007
Posts: 149
Loc: London
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Quote:
But what good is a `shortened` review.?
Surely the whole review should be put into the magazine, as IMHO the edited version may missout on something that may have influenced a person to buy the item reviewed.
If that makes sense.......
Sorry, allow me to clarify. When a review is written, it is written so that the reviewer is satisfied that all the points that needed to be covered have been. These reviews are then put into their template and cut to fit the space. We can only devote so much room to a particular product and work this out by thinking what is going to be most relevant to the reader (so, for example, a DSLR test with a lot of technical information to cover gets around six pages, while a top end compact will get one and accessories get less). I could write for ages about every nook and cranny a certain product has (and often do) but I only know how much copy will fit onto the page once it has been designed. If a product has a lot of points that need to be covered, or is a top end model of some sort, then enough space will have already been allocated to contain this. At the end of the day, we need to provide the right balance of features, news, reviews and everything else in the magazine and that is what we constantly strive to do. But feedback is, of course, always welcome so please let us know if you think we're achieving this.
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willie45
old hand
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 752
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Hi Matt.
The review in question was the HP B9180 printer. It was around 5 or 6 paragraphs long. Little more than a few bullet points really. I am dissatisfied as to why AP can give a useful, full, review for the space and yet WDC cannot ( though charges the same )
Willie
Edited by willie45 (27/02/2008 20:55)
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huwevans
Old Hand
Reged: 05/08/2000
Posts: 15413
Loc: Dorset, UK
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I can't obviously speak on behalf of WDC, but really this sort of thing is perfectly normal. If I get an academic article reprinted via Inter-Library Loans the cost is the same whether it's one page or 30 - you're paying mostly for the administrative cost of the procedure, rather than the just for the item itself. (And by the way, those ILLs cost a lot more than just £3!)
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Huw Evans.
  
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beejaybee
Marvin
Reged: 18/07/2007
Posts: 4871
Loc: Really Here In Name Only
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Quote:
I am so disappointed.
I suggest you stop selling these at £3 a go.
Might I respectfully remind you that no-one is forcing anyone to buy?
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IvorETower
Little Buttercup
Reged: 15/11/2006
Posts: 1743
Loc: Camberley, Surrey
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Quote:
I am so disappointed.
(snip)
There is absolutely no way at all they could be described as value for money.
(snip)
I have asked for a refund and await a response
In which case (am I stating the obvious?) why did you buy one? Some things may not be value for money, but if you absolutely want them, they are worth every penny.
IMHO in this day and age, £3 for a reprinted article is extremely cheap
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Too many cameras, too many lenses.......
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Benchista
Wich Tyler
Reged: 11/08/2000
Posts: 37690
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere, baby
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Quote:
Quote:
I am so disappointed.
(snip)
There is absolutely no way at all they could be described as value for money.
(snip)
I have asked for a refund and await a response
In which case (am I stating the obvious?) why did you buy one? Some things may not be value for money, but if you absolutely want them, they are worth every penny.
IMHO in this day and age, £3 for a reprinted article is extremely cheap
Although both you and beejaybee are right on one level, equally Willie didn't know exactly what he was buying, so your criticism isn't really fair. I can see that compared to the price of the mag, a short test might not seem great value for £3 - but then as you and others have pointed out, it's certainly not outrageous given the service involved.
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Nick
www.nbrphoto.com
Light and Shade II - the new blog
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Matt Golowczynski
WDC Technical Writer
Reged: 07/08/2007
Posts: 149
Loc: London
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It's probably worth pointing out that the test reports are particularly useful if you want to access an old review that you may not be able to find elsewhere. To be fair, we do make recent reviews available on our website free of charge, for compacts, DSLRs, printers, accessories, etc. As for comparing our reviews to those of AP's, we are two different magazines, and each with different readership. AP produces four times the magazines that we do and, as such, can devote more room to certain reviews and products. I believe our review of the printer in question was given adequate space in the magazine (a page) though it goes without saying that other magazines will devote less or more space, depending on who they are.
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Nigel Atherton
WDC Editor
Reged: 16/05/2006
Posts: 266
Loc: Ministry of Magazines, London
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May I take the opportunity to clarify a few things here. In an average month, WDC reviews over 20 products. These reviews vary in length. If its a DSLR it automatically gets six pages and is not significantly shorter than an AP review. Some major products, eg Photoshop Elements 6, or a bridge camera, may get 2 pages, while smaller accessories and p&s compacts can get as little as 1/3rd of a page. AP tests fewer products but perhaps gives more space to each – although they too do short reviews, some of which are only a paragraph.
We aim to test as many products as possible, but can't give them all 5 or 6 pages, as there is a finite amount of space in the magazine, and we also have about 30 pages of techniques and features. The HP B9180 was a single page test.
It seems that your gripe is not with the magazine but the fact that the review reprints are sold for £3 each, irrespective of length. I fully understand your point of view here, but have no control over this as its a business decision. However, you will shortly see some changes to the website and more of these reviews will be online. You can also subscribe to an electronic version of the whole magazine for not much more than the cost of a single review.
Regarding some of the negative comments about the magazine itself, I suggest you see a whole copy rather than basing your views on a print-out of a single review. WDC carries around 180 pages per month of reviews, features and techniques, and has the biggest, most up to date buyers guide in the UK, featuring over 1000 products. All produced by a team that's less than half the size of APs.
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willie45
old hand
Reged: 08/05/2006
Posts: 752
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Thanks to everyone for their responses. I would reiterate what Nigel (Bench-ista) says about buying unseen. In any case, I see no reason why my views on a service should not be expressed simply because I have the choice of whether or not to buy it.
I also take on board the points made about production costs.
Nigel, (Editor) I understand the points you make but I wasn't trying to gripe at the mag itself rather that having spent the money, the review was not what I expected and didn't really help me make any decisions. I realise that different people favour different types of reviews.
I reckon the nub of it is this: Whereas I might buy a magazine covering a wide variety of products and models to help me narrow my choice down to 2 or 3 which I would then follow up in more detail, this wasn't the case when I was buying a single review. Therefore, while the review, as part of a magazine containing several other reviews covering similar products would be helpful but sold as a single item it wasn't ( to me in this instance ) I had already narrowed my choices down to 2 products and wanted more detailed information about them.
I certainly didn't mean to imply in any way that WDC was an inferior product to AP but I do feel the reviews, as sold separately, for the reasons stated above are not so helpful. Anyway, I am grateful for WDC team taking time to respond to my comments and understand the points you make.
Willie
Edited by willie45 (28/02/2008 12:06)
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