Iloca
Unregistered at user's request
Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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If you're shooting sports how do you decide whether to use all the available focus points in the camera in C/AF and when would you use a more selective pattern, even using only one point?
I've only been using AF for 3-4 years and not really tried much action. I previously used MF cameras and pre-focused before tracking the subject and firing the shutter when the subject hit the spot so to speak. I still have a tendency to try to pan using only 'Single Point Center in C/AF.
As far as AF cameras go I was using an E-1 which only had 3 points anyway and Single Center seemed the best option IMO, now I'm using an E-3 and have 11 points to choose from. I can select to use all 11 points, A single point priority but which also uses the 4 surrounding points if needed (I can decide which point is used initially, or Single Point only (again I can choose what point I want to use)
I guess what I want to know is, in general when is it best to use the maximum amount of points and when to use the minimum. 
Thanks in Advance, Richard
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Mi Vid Iloca
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spinno
Curmudgeonly Fellow
Reged: 07/02/2007
Posts: 4710
Loc: Meat and Fish
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a lot depends on the sport you are shooting.
For something fairly static say cricket you don't have to move around much, for motorsports you are generally aiming at one specific point on the track. Other more fluid sports such as rugby and football may need you and your camera to be more flexible.
So I think it can be summed up as the more fixed the point of focus the fewer number of focus points.
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David
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I may not have been the best manager in football but I was in the top one -Brian Clough OBE..old big 'ead
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Iloca
Unregistered at user's request
Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Thanks Spinno,
in other words for e.g Surfing and motorsport, Single Point or Single Point Dynamic as outlined above?
Cheers, Richard
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Mi Vid Iloca
My Flickr Gallery
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spinno
Curmudgeonly Fellow
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I would say dynamic - although one could argue if you are panning just plain and simple single point should suffice.
I think trial and error is the best way forward-what suits me doesn'tnecessarily suit anyone else.
Anyway with digital what's there to lose?
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David
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I may not have been the best manager in football but I was in the top one -Brian Clough OBE..old big 'ead
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Iloca
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Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Totally agree, I don't like the idea of the camera choosing from 11 areas spread all over the viewfinder, I know what I want to be in focus, I don't want the camera choosing to focus on the wave or trackside signs for example if I want the surfer or car/bike to be focused.
I just wonderd if I had got it right as there seems to be a general demand for more and more focus points, I assumed there was a good reason for the demand.
Anyone else got an opinion?
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Mi Vid Iloca
My Flickr Gallery
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spinno
Curmudgeonly Fellow
Reged: 07/02/2007
Posts: 4710
Loc: Meat and Fish
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I think they have so many focus points to try and accommodate different compositional styles, e.g., rule of thirds. In the old days there was only one point of focus so you had to focus and recompose whereas now it's very nearly a case of pick your "spot".
I never recompose but it is alleged that I decompose.... 
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David
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I may not have been the best manager in football but I was in the top one -Brian Clough OBE..old big 'ead
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Nod
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 08/04/2006
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Loc: Devon, UK.
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When I'm shooting motorsport, I use the central focus area and continuous AF. Works for me!
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MATWSIJ.....
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Iloca
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Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Thanks Nod,
Now can someone explain why there's a constant demand (or at least a constant supply) for more focus points?
I get the idea of 5 points, one at each thirds line intersection and one center point to avoid the need to 'Focus > Recompose' but cameras have generally gone well beyond that. At top level it's 40+!!!
Why?
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Mi Vid Iloca
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OneTen
'Two Breakfasts'
Reged: 23/06/2003
Posts: 4120
Loc: Lancashire
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I'm afraid I'm no help. I've photographed many sports and all of them using manual focus. I tried an EOS-3 for while but I didn't take to it. I really can't imagine why all these focus points are necessary. Don't you spend ages trying to make sure the camera is doing what you want it to?
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Richard .......... My Flickr
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Iloca
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Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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I'm beginning to think that the idea is to use the fastest burst rate possible with the biggest buffer available, switch to 'Sports' mode and let rip 
You'll soon be able to send the camera off on it's own. 
A question for the lounge perhaps?
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Mi Vid Iloca
My Flickr Gallery
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 4366
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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Quote:
I'm afraid I'm no help. I've photographed many sports and all of them using manual focus. I tried an EOS-3 for while but I didn't take to it. I really can't imagine why all these focus points are necessary. Don't you spend ages trying to make sure the camera is doing what you want it to?
I don't get it either, for instance the new Nikon D300 has 51 focus points - how likely is it that the one it chooses is the one you want
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Rog
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Iloca
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Loc: Northern Ireland
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I read the online part of the D300 review and the increased AF points are considered a beneficial upgrade. I do wish that we could get real world example of just where one could expect to see the benefit. Clearly someone somewhere needs it and as it's usually a feature of higher end cameras.
In what situation would one benefit from 40+ focus points against 5?
If there are obvious and valid reasons then it should be easy to answer. If it's difficult to answer then one would question whether it's a benefit at all.
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Mi Vid Iloca
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
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Loc: Gloucester, UK
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Absolutely what was in my mind - why so many points - it would be nice to get an informed explanation.
As an aside, my Sony R1 has one spot focus point but it can be moved all over the frame with the joystick ... slowish but accurate - so's the camera 
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Rog
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Iloca
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Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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The Sony R1 seems to crop up quite often on the forum. I'll have to find out a bit about it, I feel I've missed out
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Mi Vid Iloca
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Roger_Provins
Made-it Man
Reged: 22/10/2005
Posts: 4366
Loc: Gloucester, UK
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Quote:
The Sony R1 seems to crop up quite often on the forum. I'll have to find out a bit about it, I feel I've missed out
Ask BrianT
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Rog
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Iloca
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Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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I've had a look on DP Review, a strange beast indeed and with a bigger sensor than my DSLR 
I can see why they've got a sort of Cult Status what with the sensor and lens and all.
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Mi Vid Iloca
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Norman
Could've been worse
Reged: 23/09/2004
Posts: 2211
Loc: Ealing, West London, UK
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From the specs of my body (Canon 1D2N)
Quote:
AI Servo AF
In this mode the camera constantly refocuses on a moving subject. If the subject is moving at a constant rate towards or away from the camera the focus system will 'predict' the new focus distance. This is especially successful when AF point selection is set to auto (the camera can use all 45 focus points to track a moving subject). In this mode the focus confirmation light only indicates if focus can not be achieved (it blinks).
If you've ever tried to track a moving object with a long tele and keep a single focus point on it you'll understand the benefit.
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Regards,
Norman
www.photobox.org.uk
I don't need exercise - I'm already tired.
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Iloca
Unregistered at user's request
Reged: 06/12/2005
Posts: 3800
Loc: Northern Ireland
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I have, I can see the benefit in theory but I'm wondering how small the subject would need to be in the viewfinder for it not to be covered by at least 2 points of a 5 point set-up?
My surf shots were taken using single center (I only had a choice of 3 so I didn't stand to gain much by using them all)
I had a look at your website, some great shots and the Catalina I really like 
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Mi Vid Iloca
My Flickr Gallery
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daft_biker
Action Man!
Reged: 11/10/2006
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If there isn't an AF point where you want it you can't always get the composition you want and track a moving sudject. Loads of AF points gives you the freedom to have focus in loads of points within the frame
Selecting between AF points can be as easy as looking through it...or more likely these days moving a wee joystick...doddle (or just leave it on full auto and hope you get the subject within the AF area...handy for unpredictable moving wildlife etc).
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Andrew (BSRIPN) ... My pics on Flickr.
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.
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El Sid
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Reged: 14/04/2003
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Loc: Sussex-by-the-Sea
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm afraid I'm no help. I've photographed many sports and all of them using manual focus. I tried an EOS-3 for while but I didn't take to it. I really can't imagine why all these focus points are necessary. Don't you spend ages trying to make sure the camera is doing what you want it to?
I don't get it either, for instance the new Nikon D300 has 51 focus points - how likely is it that the one it chooses is the one you want
As I understand it not all the focus points are user selectable. I think a number are additional assist points which are only active when using C/AF to improve focus prediction and tracking when the subject moves between two normally selectable points....
With the EOS3 the multiple focus points are best used with the eye-control focusing feature. With eye-control on you look at the subject and the camera detects where you are looking and activates the relevant AF points. I suspect that with eye contol turned off it's probably better to set the AF points to the 11 only option via the custom functions.
I once tried an EOS3 at Focus and the eye control function seemed to work pretty well...
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Nigel
Completely BSRIPN
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