oliverfisher
newbie
Reged: 25/01/2006
Posts: 27
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Hi everyone,
I'm sure you have all seen the many posts here about Leica's cash-flow. And I'm sure like me as a Leica user and fan that the thought of Leica going to the wall is a little upsetting. I for one would rather not have to move to another manufacturer.
I wondered however if Leica had ever really made any significant profit? The way I see it the Leica has always been a specialist marque. They don't appear to be much interested in marketing their products. I can't recall ever seeing a Leica advert in any form since I've been using their products. Perhaps they do more active marketing outside the UK? If you go to jessops I'm sure all most everything they make other than the smaller digital cameras is going to be a special order. In fact I've just checked and you cannot buy a Leica M8 on jessops.com! So unless your knowledgeable about available cameras most potential customers will probably never come across a Leica.
Surely if Leica were in financial trouble they would make a bit more effort in selling their products? Marketing campaigns for web or print are comparatively inexpensive compared to the extra sales they would generate.
I appreciate that Leica cameras is now much less associated with the rest of the company. And compared to the industrial and electronic arms of the company Leica cameras might be the runt of the financial litter. But Leica's only comparatively recent deal to supply lenses for Panasonic must have made a huge difference to Leica's cash-flow?
I guess my question really is... Leica doesn't look like it's in a good financial position. But has it ever been?
Hope your all enjoying the weekend. 
Ollie
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Tacitus
History
Reged: 17/01/2006
Posts: 871
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Quote:
.... In fact I've just checked and you cannot buy a Leica M8 on jessops.com!
Phew! Thank goodness for that! There'd be a risk of Jesspots having some vestige of being a photographic shop again .....
The idea that Jessops, nowadays, would sell Leicas (and that their target 'hoi-poloi' customers would buy such prestige equipment) is quite amusing. Thank you 
.T.
Edited by Tacitus (24/11/2007 18:37)
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Mark_Norton
Reged: 29/06/2002
Posts: 1138
Loc: London, UK
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What a lot of tripe!
First of all, you need to understand that Leica Camera is a completely separate company from Leica Microsystems and Leica Geosystems. Leica Microsystems own the Leica trademark and licence it to Leica Camera.
In May 2005, Leica Camera nearly went bust because they completely under-estimated the flight from film. Over a period of years, the influence of Hermes as a major shareholder had perpetuated the idea of Leica as a luxury brand, a bit like Rolex. Unfortunately, while rich punters were happy to continue with mechanical watches, they didn't much care for film cameras any more and their sales went into serious decline.
What Leica did have was top quality optical design expertise and if you study the accounts from the period, it's clear that their consulting and IP licencing businesses kept them afloat before the CEO went off to run a furniture company. In the meantime, an investor with the largest private fortune in Austria - derived from packaging - came to the rescue and has all but taken Leica Camera private. He (Dr Andreas Kaufmann) has a number of optical businesses which dovetail nicely with Leica. The lens barrels, for example, are made by a company in whch Dr Kaufmann's investment company has a significiant holding.
This investment is the best news for Leica. It's brought the M8 to market, new lenses - seemingly 24 now being designed - with a new DSLR expected next year. Bright young talent, the Product Manager for the R10 is a young woman - and a plan to relocate from Solms back to the spiritual home of Wetzlar - 10 miles maybe but a symbolic resurrection of the company.
Dr Kaufmann has told me personally he is in it for the long haul, to see Leica back where they belong as makers of some of the finest lenses on the planet and cameras to go with them. A bold plan given (especially) the new announcements from Nikon but I'm looking at an A2 print from an M8 and 28mm Summicron-M ASPH, just fabulous.
In time, we expect an M9 which will recognise the M8 as a necessary learning curve and will move the rangefinder game on. Add the new DSLR, the sport optics which are among the very best and new areas such as projection and Leica has a bright future.
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Mark
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Tacitus
History
Reged: 17/01/2006
Posts: 871
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Quote:
What a lot of tripe!
That's what I was thinking but I couldn't be bothered to say it ....... Thanks for the real-world perspective Mark. .T.
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oliverfisher
newbie
Reged: 25/01/2006
Posts: 27
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Hi thanks for the explaination.
I'm still interested in why theres so little marketing and availability is so limited. Not only do we live in a time where it's incredibly fashionable to display wealth. it's also incredibly fashionable to be a 'photographer'. Plenty of my friends own massive TV's and audio visual equipment that cost many thousands. In fact the majority of their disposable income goes on stuff like this. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would fork over £3000, £4000 or even more for a camera even if it was just to show off. Maybe they don't feel that these people would appreciate the M8's classic lines?
Glad to hear things have turned around for Leica. Must admit I'm dreading the release of the new DSLR. If it has 'sport' optics that means auto-focus surely? And if it doesnt have proper manual focus with a split-prism screen like the current R cameras I think I will have to make the switch.
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Mark_Norton
Reged: 29/06/2002
Posts: 1138
Loc: London, UK
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Leica is about 1/50 the size of Nikon and Canon is several times bigger than Nikon. Nikon churn out 2000 low-end and mid-range DSLRs a day from just one of their plants and they probably make several times that number of point and shoots. Leica make (by most estimates) about 50 M8s a day. In 2006, Nikon made 1.74 million DSLRs, Leica made (not published but, say) 10000 M8s in its first year. The scale of the Leica operation is completely different.
Leica products are not as widely distributed as Nikon or Canon products, how could they be? Leica can't afford to advertise widely - it's expensive and there's always that old adage - "half my advertising works, half of it doesn't, the problem is, I don't know which half". They used to run advertisements for their film cameras on the front page of The Times, just as the world was running away from film. So that was money well spent.
The big players have deep pockets. Canon spent more on their "pavilion" for 7 or so days at Photokina last year than Leica spent (my estimation, based on published accounts) developing the M8.
It's good that Leica is not seen as a trophy by people with more money than sense. Instead, it's a precision tool for taking pictures. My Leica M8s never receive a second glance, and I like it that way.
Sport Optics is a generic term given to their binoculars and spotting scopes, even the rangefinder intended for golfers. Sales in that area of the business is - about - the same as System Cameras and pick up a specialist magazine and you will find Leica advertisements.
I assume you are dreading the release of the new DSLR because it might have autofocus? That's a closely guarded secret as is the frame format. It's surely got to be full frame or equivalent, but they might abandon the 3:2 aspect ratio in favour of 5:4 which allows a bigger image area within the same image circle supported by the lenses. Question is, do Copal make the shutters Leica would then need in the (by Copal's standards) limited numbers that Leica would be buying?
Leica cannot hope to compete with, say, a Nikon D3, feature by feature. Instead, I expect they will come out with a camera that appeals in the same way the Leica M does - a concentration on essentials.
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Mark
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