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Go to the Home Page to take part in our latest poll - What is the main reason you take pictures? Martin Parr (interviewed in this week's issue) thinks AP readers are a bit small minded - and that you all only take pictures to recreate photos and photographic styles you have seen before. Is he right? And does he understand what motivates amateurs to take pictures? Are you striving for artistic greatness, or do you simply enjoy the action of pressing the shutter button? Many enthusiasts use photography to help them enjoy other hobbies, and others to simply record life events and occasions. Which category do you fit into? Thanks for taking part. Damien |
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I take pictures because I can (can't do bu**er all else...)Dunno which one to tick though The name Martin Parr is vaguely familiar... Does he have a style worth copying? |
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I take pictures because I enjoy it ! I think the second biggest qualifier for me is "to make pictures that are pleasing to look at". in fact I take pictures for all the reasons except for, B to help me remember. Ooh is that what Martin Parr thinks ! I have to say though that when I have taken a picture that I think is unique, after a little searching on Flickr or the web I can often find very similar images! I have been at college since September and when I present images to the lecturer she often says " oh that is very like so and so's work " but I am blissfully unaware that the photographer existed !! So I don't try to emulate the styles of other photographers but some happy coincidences to happen occasionally. The simple fact is though that if its a good idea someone will probably have thought of it and done it first ! In any case emulating or copying is a great way of learning if thats how you choose to learn and the person being copied should be chuffed , as what do they say "imitation is the finest form of flattery" or something along those lines ! Thats my take anyway ! |
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Only one answer really - because I enjoy it. All the other reasons are involved but are secondary to the enjoyment of doing it. What's the point, otherwise? |
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Because I enjoy it. Mr Parr can rest assured I shall not be copying his 'style.' In fact, I can't say I've taken any images in the mould of my favourite photographers, they use a style which is quite different to mine (Michael Kenna, Joe Cornish, Mapplethorpe, Tomatsu, Maeda etc). |
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Wot he said ^^^^^^^^ I take them for all of the reasons listed, but if I didn't get enjoyment both from the taking and the finished image then I'd quit. |
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I think the choices should have been checkboxes and not radio buttons so I voted three times, omitting the "make pleasing images" one because that's only a byproduct of my snap-crazy photophilia. |
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Because I enjoy it. I really get a kick out of taking pictures.
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Because I enjoy it, but really need a box for "all of the above"! |
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Quote: ^^^ WHS ^^^ |
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Agree with you Richard. For me it's an addiction. Getting a kick from it just as some people get a kick from booze or fags etc. With me, photography must trigger some release of neurotransmitters (dopamine, 5HT etc) which stimulate parts of the brain associated with reward and pleasure. As for Martin Parr, he should stick to his day job rather than making glib remarks. Yes, some people will try out or 'borrow' styles or techniques, but they will also adapt and mould them to suit. It's called evolution (well in some cases that is not necessarily for the better ). I don't think anybody wants to be a clone
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Think we're a very similar bunch here. I do it because I enjoy it. If I have a photo that I think is nice enough to put on the wall for a while - great! Although I don't try to capture a moment (either to record it, or remind me of it) at the time of taking, looking back through the results generally reminds me of the time/place and evokes pleasant memories. If someone else has done something similar, good for them, but does that really matter? He's a pro, totally different ball game, he has to work for different masters in order to make a living. I do that in the day job as well, it's necessary to pay the bills and keep a roof over my head - and to be able to buy the camera kit My photography however is done for me, and as long as I'm enjoying it why does he think I'd care what he thinks? |
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I take pictures because I enjoy it - god knows why because it can be frustrating, uncomfortable, expensive, never enough time, at times anti-social (no you cant come you'll get bored traipsing over soggy ground, you know you do). It's an addiction, nearly a vice! |
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cos I enjoy it. By the way Damien please stop shouting with your headlines, it's the weekend and some of us are trying to relax. Now where did I put that jackhammer...ah yes there it is on top of that pane of glass
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Well, like pretty much everyone else, it seems, I voted 'because I enjoy it'. If there had been a 'because I'm driven to' I'd probably have chosen that - but that would arguably just have been pretentious. :-) But of course all this doesn't actually address Martin Parr's point - people could just enjoy reproducing familiar pictures, and in general I think there is far too much of that in amateur photography. It's actually the thing I find most disheartening about it - I want to see stimulating and original images but so often I'm just presented with the same tired old subjects. I won't bother going through it all again here, but I will just cite a couple of threads from the last year or so which illustrate precisely this point: Buachaille Etive Mor Watch Most over-photographed locations |
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Hmmm... I voted that I want to make photographs that are pleasing to look at but, of course, if I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't do it. I think the poll results are going to be very skewed by the fact that, for us amateurs, photography is a hobby and we must, by definition, do it because we enjoy it. I think that answer should have been omitted and maybe replaced by another along the lines of 'because I find it therapeutic'. But then we'd all want to be checking multiple answers (can this be an option or are all polls here based on radio buttons? With regard to aping the works of other photographers, I enjoy looking at great images, whether photographic or produced by other artisitc means, and no doubt this influences how I approach taking pictures - I'd be disappointed if I ignored this way of improving my 'seeing', but the only photographer I'm aware I tried to emulate is Edward Weston when I went through a phase of taking monochrome pictures of fruit and vegetables. In the end it did concern me for two reasons: that my thinking and intention wasn't intrinsically mine (even though I wasn't trying to copy Weston's photographs) and, secondly, because his pictures were always better than mine! Now I just do my own thing even though I'm aware that, with so many photographs being taken, it's more than likely that someone else has taken something similar. I don't think that diminishes my artistic intent however, so I just get on with it. |
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Because I enjoy it and love the challenge that Wildlife photography throws at you, If it was easy, I would give it up…Wildlife that is…. |
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...because I enjoy it. ..if I didn't I wouldn't do it. As for Martin Parr, probably a very nice bloke but have never really liked his pictures - personal taste I guess. |
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Quote: actually I've been thinking about this and yes I do enjoy taking pictures, I don't always enjoy the results, however that's me and I'll have to get over it. ![]() One thought however did cross my mind. Should there have been another box. "To alleviate any guilt I feel about spending all that money on that nice camera and lens..."
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I take pictures to annoy Martin Parr - I had always assumed this act was mutual.
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Quote:
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Quote: LMAO
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Another screen and keyboard up the Swannee! :-) |
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In lieu of the keeps me sane...sort of... option I went for because I enjoy it. Martin Parr, wasn't he in the Boo Radleys??
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I think there's more than a grain of truth in what Martin Parr says. Me? I'd describe myself as much a flaneur as a photographer, if the camera had never been invented I'd still be out strolling, for me its a physical and mental workout (or meditation). As for influences, I'd be lying if I said that all the images I'd seen had no bearing on the photographs I'd taken over the years, amongst them I can see nods in the direction of Atget, Walker Evans, Robert Frank, Garry Winogrand and even Martin Marr . . . anyone with the same influences or knowledge as me would have little difficulty in spotting them
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I think Martin Parr is a bit up his own a**e for making a comment like that! Many amateurs including readers of AP far out weigh any pro's work. Anyhow to the q, I for the most part take pictures because I love capturing what I see. A lot of my flower shots have been compared to Maplethorpe, but if you are totally familiar with Maplethorpe they are nothing like. I also only came across Maplethorpe after I was compared to him and it was recommended that I take a look at his photographs. I'm sure there are subconscious influences, for me it's not any one other photographer but more about trends, I seem to get on those then get miffed if others do too
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Quote: The last time I got hooked on copying a style I bought a spot meter and tried to implement the Zone system. Soon realised I was just 'pony and trap' and almost gave up photography for fifteen years. |
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Every time I take a sharp and well exposed image that is exceptionally boring I'm copying Martin Parr ![]() But then again he must have seen a picture of a jumping spider leaping through the air and about sink it's fangs into some prey...I've not! Can't say I've gone looking for one either but I guess it would be nice to see it was "doable" and I'd even settle for a pic of a jumping spider jumping with no prey. I've not nailed either shot Yet
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I've always classed myself among the ranks of those who really didn't like Martin Parr's work, but curiously enough after reading that article at last I feel I understand where his pictures are coming from. I still can't stand the ring-flash lighting look that he goes for, but I do see the point of his choice of subject matter now. Maybe it's because I'd only ever seen the odd image of his in isolation, rather than having systematically read through one of his books. But anyway, finally it all becomes clear. When I posted earlier today I already sympathized with his comments, cited by Damien in this poll, but I hadn't at that time read the article. Now that I have read it they make even more sense to me. Damn it, the guy's growing on me! ;-) |
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Initially because I enjoyed taking snaps. Then I got the bug which turned into a full blown addiction. Then I was considered 'good' at taking pictures and got paid for doing so. Then it became a slog. Luckily for me, I got over that hump and although I still get paid, I'm now back to taking pictures for the sheer enjoyment of it. I see photography as keeping me out of a job
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Quote: hope he knows more about photography than he does about photographers
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I take photographs because I want to. Who on earth is Martin Parr? A Google search reveals little. Apart from a self-lauding website (inevitable) he does have a Wiki entry, that starts "His photographic projects take a critical look at modern society, specifically consumerism, foreign travel and tourism, motoring, family and relationships, and food". Well, there's a vast amount of human endeavour that he doesn't specialise in, then. Has he materially contributed to human advancement? Probably not.... in which case, who gives a toss what he thinks? James |
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Well I just take photographs because I enjoy it. When I'm out working, or in car, I'll take a quick shot of something that I like the look of. If I go out with my medium format gear, then I've usually given some thought to where, what and why. I enjoy the process of setting up the camera and capturing the image. If I like what I've captured then great, if someone else doesn't like it ---- well that's their problem. I don't try to copy Martin Parr or anyone elses style, but I can't help it if images end up looking similar. Just a thought, If I'm older than Martin Parr etc. does that mean that he/they are copying me ??? .I know this is late but I hope you all had a great Christmas and wish you all the best for the coming year. Had problems here with broadband modem thingy giving up the ghost over Christmas and in getting Virgin Media to come out and fix it. All done now though. Regards Ray |
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Quote: I refuse to read your post until you can fully show your contribution to human advancement.
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Quote: Have to admit I read the article after seeing this and now it's in context I see where he is coming from! |
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like the majority, first and foremost, because I like taking pictures of stuff and anything above that, beit compliments, derogatory remarks, money and so on is pure gravy ![]() Cheers, Jack |
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Quote:Quote: Oh, I see where he's coming from, but don't entirely agree - and still don't like his photography. I've tried several times, been through quite a few of his books, but it's no good - I really can't equate his banal photography, derivative from a poor snapshot style, with his rather more lucid comments (on this occasion!). P.S. Having leafed through this week's AP, most of the readers' stuff looks quite original - unlike the Warehouse Express comp in their ads... |
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I am an archaeologist and photography is one of our primary means of recording what we find. Sorry, dead boring. |
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Quote:Quote:Quote: I don't know if he's original or not but his style seems to be in vogue at the mo, it'll soon die a death then we'll all be chanting 'who are you' lol ![]() More seriously I quite like his photography to flick through and be amused by in mags but there is nothing I would want to buy except perhaps a book. I admire his outlook. If his view really is that we are all small minded it really does show him up as a small minded person! |
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Regarding Mr Parr's comments - I think that all artists are to a certain extent influenced by the work of others. Certainly I admire the work of earlier masters such as Bresson, Adams, Cameron etc; it doesn't mean that I copy their work. I hope that I learn from their techniques and adapt and evolve them to suit the type of photograph that I like to see. 'Styles that we've seen before' - is there actually any styles or technique that hasn't been used before? If not then he's probably as guilty as he beleives we are! |
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Quote: His 1986 book The Last Resort was the breakthrough for him, until then he was mostly working in black & white, he was good but nothing special. He admits that seeing the colour work of William Eggleston and Stephen Shore was a turning point for him and the rest is history . . . he's a huge influence in the art colleges, he's a Magnum photographer, he's published two or three dozen books and catalogues of his photographs plus co-written (with Gerry Badger) the superb The Photobook: A History vol 1 & vol 2. Whether you like his photographs is neither here nor there but without a doubt he's probably the most influencial and commercially successful British photographer of the last 20 years . . . .though maybe not to AP readers ![]() Just though I'd fill in some gaps for those who'd never heard of him
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lol I guess he's just gone and hurt all our feelings ![]() I suppose I really should look more at the greats but I have little knowledge of them, bit like music I rarely know the groups but I do know the songs! Thanks for the info Alan, did he feature on a TV programme recently? |
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I have personally quite enjoyed the cynical eye of Parr when I've viewed his images. But the 'point' with Stephen Shore just goes whooshing straight past me. My sensibilities obviously aren't fine-tuned enough. |
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Quote: He's currently appearing as a judge on Channel 4's "Picture This". the grand finale is on tonight (Sunday) at 7 p.m. |
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Hi Glenn, with most photographers I tend to cherrypick the images I like, with Shore I go for the 'street' photographs rather than the pictures of what he had for breakfast kind of thing - both show up his book Uncommon Places. He's another one who namechecks Walker Evans as an influence. |
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I find many different styles of image enjoyable in the right context - a collection in a book for example, rather than gawping at little pictures on a screen. But it's still difficult for me to understand the fame of Stephen Shore. His pictures remind me of my holiday snaps I took as a ten year old in 1976 ........... and I guess that is the point. |
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I think I'll join the "because I enjoy it" crowd. Of course, every Martin Parr image is a unique creation that looks nothing like the one that went before it
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Quote: The main reason I take pictures is because I'm a photographer - it's what photographers do. Quote: That's nowt but a sweeping generalisation! Quote: Nope. Quote: I like to picture an image in my mind, and make it happen - finding the location or setting, the person or people to make it work. My inspiration comes from looking at the work of many photographers (amateur and professional, current and historical), reading books, listening to music, and drinking alcohol. It's the finished result that counts for me - whether it is liked by others or not. The measure of success is how well I've accomplished what I set out to capture. Two photographers who have never inspired me are Martin Parr, and, of course, Ansel Adams ...
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I can't help but agree with every word Ian has said, however much it pains me to... ![]() I've got a number of not necessarily related thoughts on Mr Parr and his comments: 1. I rather agree with him that many amateurs do indeed attempt to copy styles and photos, but it's far too sweeping a generalisation to assume that that is the motivation behind us all. I think we've kicked to death the "Buchaille Etive Mor" issue previously, but suffice it to say that I think on here we've a decreasing number of Cornish emulators, common though they may still be elsewhere, and beyond that it's not immediately obvious whose style anybody attempts to emulate. Is he perhaps upset that AP readers don't try to copy his style? 2. Is it not exceptionally ironic that not only is his style based on someone else's, but that he's "a huge influence in the art colleges" - in short, people are trying to recreate his photos and his photographic style? 3. I think he's got a decent eye for a subject, but I actually think his execution is pretty awful and extremely clumsy. Set aside his lighting and colour style for a moment, it's his composition that I think is often pretty poor, as highlighted by several of the shots in the mag - wrong choice of lens to get a suitable perspective, wrong framing and so on IMVHO. Then there's the slavish adherence to his style, regardless of whether it suits the subject or not. Yes, it goes down well with the art establishment, and plenty of people queue up to buy it - but frankly I don't care if I'm the little boy pointing out that this particular emperor is stark naked, and up until his comments, I had always assumed that he didn't care what I (or any of us) thought either, but that he was content to laugh all the way to the bank. Now I'm not so sure - it appears to me that he actually craves our adulation. Sorry, Martin. 4. I've browsed through the last two issues of AP in light of his comments, and also had another look at the monthly competition on here - and with the exception of the pic of Bamburgh Castle in this week's mag, they largely refute his comments IMHO. Indeed even that attempts to be a slightly different treatment, and is rather nicely complimented by a similar treatment of Torness Power Station by the same photographer, the two images together saying considerably more about art than Parr's pic of a Tenerife tourist menu... OK, I know that shot is a statement on the habits and requirements of the British tourist on holiday, but for me, it's artistically bankrupt - no more than a pure record shot if taken by anyone other than The Artist, and it only aquires meaning with a hint of written explanation - and as Kyle Cassidy says, if a photo needs explanation, it's not good enough. Personally, I rate Kyle's photography much more highly than Parr's in the street world - for that matter, ditto Alan W's - hugely superior execution, and less tiresomely predictable in style... 5. I don't think Parr is a great photographer. I don't even think he's all that good. I DO think he's an important photographer, and despite all my comments, I wish him well - he gives us something to talk about, and it's always good to see any photographer making money out of something other than the misery of others. |
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Quote: Perhaps he's right, but only because I look at wildlife shots and would dearly like both the opportunity and the skill to take them myself. I take pictures because it's something I enjoy doing. |
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Quote: Wow ... I feel libelled. Seriously though, I take pictures of animals and plants because I like looking at images of plants and animals, and I like watching said animals. I don't intentionally copy anyone's style, although I probably do sub-consciously copy the style of John Shaw, Freeman Patterson, and Gilles Martin (as I learnt photography through reading their books, and hence their guidance). Looking at Mr Parr's website, all I can say is that it's very sterile ...
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Quote: It doesn't much matter if he is great or not or even if he is an important photographer, if his comments were meant to slight anyones hobby he is a sad person indeed. So what if we put our tripods in the same holes and point our cameras at the same old boring subjects, perhaps some would prefer to go get it themselves rather than buy it from another photographer, perhaps some like to see if they can match or even better a picture, perhaps some don't even realise it's been taken a million times before. Perhaps in a persons mind they see a scene and think so what if has been seen already, I like it and I want to capture it for myself. So what if we are all small minded we're having fun being so
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Quote:Quote: well said Tanya ![]() My only gripe is when the same old same old win competitions ![]() but given some of the themes it's almost inevitable ![]() I have to say I'm mightily impressed by the entries on this months forum competition...can't say they're the same old same old |
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Certainly not this month David
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Quote: Totally agree. Send Mr Parr to have a look at them and say the same thing! |
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who is this Parr everyone's talking about |
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Quote: This chap - his website |
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Quote: pity it's not Katherine... |
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ok. clicked it seen it dont like it. Next.. |
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yeah I know... ![]() wishful thinking perhaps |
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at least she didnt lose her head (or did she??) |
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no she outlived him given that he was infected with syphilis(allegedly) I'm not sure it was a good thing ![]() She died in childbirth 20 months after he died. ...she had married someone else...Lord Seymour who I believe was the father of Jane Seymour...no not Dr Quinn medicine woman
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Quote: Maybe they were rather intended to try to get photography enthusiasts to expand their horizons a little [no pun intended, although the symbolism is certainly convenient! ;-)], to see a bit further, or more deeply? Perhaps he's actually being positive, rather than merely slighting people. I know that for about the last ten or twelve years I've been growing more and more dissatisfied with the shallowness of so much photography that I see (yes, including my own). And that issue is writ large whenever the photographer appears merely to be trying to reproduce their own version of what has been done a thousand times before, or just generally to make pictures that look like so and so's. There's a vapidity about it which just doesn't push the buttons for me any more. The pictures at best might look pretty, pleasing the eye perhaps, but they do nothing for my mind. They're just decorative, and that's it. Well, decoration is fine, but by definition it's not the most important thing. And I've pretty much had my fill of it. I don't suppose I'll ever stop pointing my camera at things that look pretty - that's just an instinctive thing - but I do want more from pictures if I'm to find any real value in them. I want to 'connect' with something - it might be a statement about something (like Martin Parr's work, as I now understand), or it might teach me about something I've not encountered before, like a good photojounalistic article, or perhaps it might just make me look into the eyes of some person I would never otherwise meet and feel some sort of empathy with their condition, or whatever. But it has to do something much more profound than just look nice on the wall. It has to mean something to me. So, more power to MP's elbow, I say. I'm still not wild about his lighting, or his use of colour, but at least I do now know why he does what he does, and that he has something to say through his pictures that just might be worth listening to. |
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I take photos for two reasons 1 To record what I see, mainly to recreate it in a painting or sketch. 2 Because I like it. This Parr bloke seems to me to be a bit of a muppet Not impressed with his work or his web site I guess he's only where he is today because he has some arty f**rty brigade behind him. I bet he eats Marmite too. |
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Quote: ...not tripe then........
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Quote:Quote: I can't say I disagree with you Huw, I understand what you and he are getting at. I am also very guilty of being bored to death of some images and also guilty of taking some of those boring ones (in fact probably 90% of the time) but who are we or anyone else to say, don't do that do this. There are many enthusiasts who will strive for originality but there are also many who don't, but the main thing I'm getting at is it's a hobby for most and so what if they are rubbish and boring at it the main thing is they are enjoying themselves.
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I'm firmly in the "Because I enjoy it" category... indeed I enjoy the act of taking pictures so much I have more pictures than I have time to process them. Sometimes I have the nasty suspicion that I actually enjoy the taking more than the end result.... ![]() If Martin Parr thinks that we all take pictures just to recreate particular photos and styles then he's either playing Devils Advocate or being a bit of a twerp, guess I'll have to buy this weeks issue to find out. Of course he could be talking about club photography where I do find that there is a tendency for the style and substance of the pictures to be depressingly uniform - especially in the 'advanced' classes - though that could be attributable as much to the standard of judges and judging as to the actual nature of the 'togs themselves. Personally I don't think I'm striving for artistic greatness (fat chance... ) but I do try to get my take on the subject into the picture - not that I always succeed of course. I've more than my fair share of snapshots and 'Oh God, why did I take that' pictures...
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I think just about every photographer goes through a stage of "copying" styles, its part of the whole joy of learning about photography. I know some will disagree but I think a lot of photographic "styles" are largely down to the techniques used (film type, lighting, composition, focal length etc.). And so often when anyone is trying to learn a new technique or try something different they are inadvertently or deliberately copying someone's style. I'd hate to be in a world where every time I was about to take a photo I'd have to stop and think whether it's been done before and if I could do it better. I doubt I'd ever take another photo again!
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Quote: Definitely agree with you there Steve, in fact for me it would be a total hindrance to any artistic flow and creativity I may have! |
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Quote:Quote: In photography I live for the moment and hopefully capture it, there is no doubt others will have captured similar before, but the point is, this is me doing it ! and I have not done it before, so I will be happy if my image meets my standards , sod anybody else ! |
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Quote: ^^^ WHS ^^^ (more or less). Even if I have done it before, I might still want to repeat the shot - because I think I can do better - usually I'm wrong but the satisfaction when I do manage to improve is terrific. For my own part, I don't care a foetid dingo's kidney what Martin Parr or anyone else thinks. |
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Quote: My God, I'm a Parr emulator withough realising ![]() It's Blackpool though, nothing so classy.
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Quote: there's a lot of 'em about...
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Is emulation the sincerest form of flattery or simply a lack of thought, creativity or the ability to 'see'? On the one hand it enables the creatively challenged to at least produce something worth hanging on the wall. On the other it does demonstrate that people are perhaps not taking the time to think, to explore, to imagine. Visiting a well known scene or scenario, getting the exposure and framing correct are all well and good but basically you may as well invest a few pence in a postcard and save the time and effort. In the specific Mr Parr may well be wrong but in the general I feel he is very right indeed. Huw - is there such a word as 'vapidity'?
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Quote: <Grabs Pocket Oxford Dictionary from down beside desk and confirms...> Yes. :-) |
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Quote: Maybe, but it's extremely hard to take such a lesson from someone with such a rigorously repetitive artistic vision, I feel. |
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Quote:Quote: As reported, his criticism is very precise and not targeted at photography enthusiasts in general: Quote: The solution is obvious - we should stop reading AP! Reproducing what other photographers have done is a valid way of learning*, the problem comes if that's all you ever do, and don't move on to 'do your own thing'. However, every picture you look at will influence you, even if it is only subconsciously, and consequently the more pictures you look at, the better photographer you may become - you have conscious and subconscious resources to draw and build on. "The trouble with professional photographers is they're all men in suits who own a camera and know how to make money with it - they have no souls ... " - s'easy to stir it! ... ![]() *Didn't famous artists run schools in the past, training apprentice painters to work in their style? |
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